Russell Williams Police Interrogation Transcript

On February 7th, 2010, former Colonel in the Canadian Forces, Russell Williams, was interviewed by the Ottawa Police’s Detective Smyth. In this interview, Williams admits to the murder of two women and the sexual assaults of two others. He was formally charged with two counts of first degree murder, sexual assault, two counts of forcible confinement, and 84 counts of breaking and entering. A case summary can be found here.

**The following interrogation transcript includes details from the sexual assaults that had been edited out of the official Ontario Provincial Police transcript.**

Russell Williams Police Interrogation Transcript

Detective: Just have a seat here, Russ.

Russell Williams: The guy I was speaking with on whatever night that was, was Russ as well.

Detective: Oh, yeah?

Russell Williams: And, and he took, uh, took every number I had.

Detective: Yeah, oh they were uh, doing some pretty thorough interviews that night.

Russell Williams: Yeah, absolutely. I was…

Detective: Alright.

Russell Williams: Glad to see it.

Detective: Uh, I’m just going to move your gloves, uh, that’s a little microphone.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Just make sure it’s nice and clear, um, as you can see here everything in this room is, uh, videotaped and audio taped.

Russell Williams: Check.

Detective: Uh, ever been interviewed by the police in a, in a room like this before or?

Russell Williams: I have never been interviewed like this…

Detective: Oh, no? okay.

Russell Williams: This is the closest to interview for NIS for top secret clearance.

Detective: Oh, yeah? Alright, well, again Russell, I appreciate you coming in, uh, an investigation like this, I mean, I’m sure you can appreciate its been big news, uh…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Especially down, uh, Belleville way uh, and you know obviously our approach in cases like this is that uh, uh, we don’t give up on somebody being alive until…

Russell Williams: Mm-Hm.

Detective: We get evidence that they’re not so um, because of that we’re treating, uh, Jessica’s case as an emergent situation obviously.

Russell Williams: Absolutely, yeah.

Detective: Um, so we’re, we’re fast forwarding things that we might normally take our time with…

Russell Williams: Mm-Hmm.

Detective: Uh, and that’s why, uh, we’re here on a Sunday afternoon, uh…

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: So, uh, again I appreciate it.

Russell Williams: No problem.

Detective: Um, we’re going to do a pretty thorough interview today.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, um, the reason for that is because, uh, the last thing we want is to be calling people back again and again and again, okay?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, so what we’re going to do is we’re going to go over a number of things and uh…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: I’m going to explain what all those are to you.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, um, I’m a big coffee guy. I don’t know if you’re a coffee guy or not.

Russell Williams: I am a coffee guy, actually, yeah.

Detective: I don’t want to drink in front of you so, um…

Russell Williams: No, no, I appreciate that.

Detective: Alright, go ahead.

Russell Williams: I could, uh, definitely. Are they black?

Detective: Yeah, they’re just black with, uh, with sugar, uh…

Russell Williams: Uh, you could definitely uh, take [inaudible]. Well, I just started my gum so I’ll probably have it in a little bit.

Detective: Sorry, you what? Sorry.

Russell Williams: Gum, just..

Detective: Oh [laughs]

Russell Williams: I just put a piece of gum in.

Detective: There’s napkins here if you want to toss it or whatever.

Russell Williams: I appreciate that.

Detective: Alright, and again, um, like I said this interview’s going to be very thorough.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, but again, uh, I have a simple rule when I talk to people. It’s, uh, I’m sure you’re the same way. I treat people, everybody, with respect and…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: I’ll ask that you do the same for me. Um, so what we’re going to do is we’re going to start off by, uh, going through, um, what your rights are, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Just like everybody else.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, um, have you been read your rights before?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: No? I’m sure you’ve seen it on TV a whole bunch of times.

Russell Williams: Oh, yeah.

Detective: But it’s usually the American version so…

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: I’ll go over it with you briefly, okay?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, basically in Canada, uh, as you know, I’m sure is, uh, we all have, uh, our rights guaranteed under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Russell Williams: Right.

Detective: Okay, now, uh, Russell, just to avoid any confusion ‘cause some people do get confused when they’re talked to by the police is that, uh…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, you’re obviously not under arrest for today, okay?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Anytime you feel, uh, you want to leave here, you feel free to do so. The door’s not locked. Theresa will walk you down to the lobby anytime you want.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, um, if there’s anything that comes up in our interview today, Russell, that uh, that you feel you want to talk, uh, to a lawyer about…

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, you just, uh, you just let me know.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Alright and the reason for that is when I explain to you exactly what’s going on here, okay, um, uh, Jessica, uh, Lloyd is um, is one of uh, four cases that we’re currently investigating.

Russell Williams: Right.

Detective: Um, and essentially what’s happened over the past, uh, uh, about four or five months…

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Um, there have been four occurrences, uh, like I said, that we’re looking into.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, two of those occurrences occurred in September of 2009.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, and very briefly they were up in the, uh, the Tweed area.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, they involved, uh, somebody entering uh, two different woman’s houses.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, in the evening hours and uh, committing, uh, sexual acts.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, uh, in, uh, November 2009…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, a young lady by the name of, uh, Marie-France, uh, Comeau, uh…

Russell Williams: One of my people, yeah.

Detective: Yeah, was found, uh, murdered in her home in Brighton.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: And, uh, we believe that there was a sexual component to that crime as well.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: And um, then most recently we have Jessica Lloyd’s disappearance.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, so essentially when you look at those kind of crimes we’re looking at number of different, uh, potential criminal charges, alright?

Russell Williams: I hope so.

Detective: Um, we’re looking at issues, uh, all the way from the most serious one which is first degree murder.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, kidnapping, uh, sexual assault…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, break and enter with intent to commit sexual assault…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, forcible confinement, okay? And, uh, so what I want to make sure you understand and this is what we do literally we talking to, is that clearly when we find out who’s responsible for one or all of those crimes…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, they could be charged with one or all of those offences, okay? Whether it’s you or whether it’s anybody else, alright?

Russell Williams: I’d hope so.

Detective: And that’s why it’s important that we us, make sure the people understand what they have to and what they don’t have to do when they’re talking to us.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, so as I said before, any point today, uh, you feel the need you want to speak to a lawyer, uh, you let me know.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: And uh, we can take you to a room where you can do that in private. Okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, do you have your own lawyer?

Russell Williams: I had a reality lawyer but…

Detective: Okay. [laughs]

Russell Williams: No, I don’t have a lawyer.

Detective: Alright, um, if at any point you want to make that call and you don’t know who to call…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, we have a phone list of lawyers that, uh, are available to give you advice free of charge right over the phone.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, so again if at any point today you want to, uh, take advantage of that you just let me know.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Um, is there any reason you want to call a lawyer now?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay. Um, couple other, uh, fairly simple and straight forward, uh, things that uh, you probably understand but, uh, again we go over them to make sure everybody’s clear…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Is that, uh, you don’t have to speak to me today, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: And the reason for that is because the law considers me to be what we refer to as a person of authority.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, probably similar to what you may be considered to be at the base.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, and because of that I can be compelled to appear before any Judge in the country basically to account for what takes place here today, between you and I, okay?

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Okay and that’s the reason why everything’s recorded…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …because there can’t be a more accurate record than that, right? So…

Russell Williams: No, understood.

Detective: Um, another thing I want to make sure you understand is that, uh, you know you mentioned a second ago about uh, Miss Comeau, um, being one of your, uh, work associates. Uh, so I don’t know what happened since November, um, on the military side of things, uh, but what we want to make people clear on is that, uh, if you have been spoken to by any person in authority…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …or any police officer about any of those case, um, I don’t want what they may have said to you to, uh, um, make you feel influenced or compelled to say anything to me today, okay? Whatever you might have felt influenced or compelled to say to them earlier…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective:… you don’t have to repeat to me. You don’t have to say anything further, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: But obviously what you do say you know for the third time is…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … being recorded, right? So, uh…

Russell Williams: Understood. These first two attacks that happened, uh, not that far from my place in Tweed. Well, the second one did.

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: We didn’t even know the first one had happened but, uh, I understand that was the reasonably close as well but the second one was, uh, was very close.

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: So certainly at the time the OPP did a, uh, went door to door…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: …and, and, uh, within a couple of days, probably the same night, so I spoke with a couple back then.

Detective: Okay, um, yeah, and I’m, I’m aware of that…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: From, uh, looking at the different cases and essentially uh, Russell, uh, in a nutshell, that’s what we wanted to, uh, to talk to you about.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, um, those four cases are, uh, a concern to us.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And uh, you know you’ve kind of, uh, all most hit the nail on the head about, uh, some of our issues that kind of, uh, make us want to talk to, to, Russell Williams, okay?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, cause essentially uh, there’s a, a, a, connection, um, between you and uh, and all four of those cases. Would you agree, geographically?

Russell Williams: And that I, I guess I drive past, uh, yes, uh…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams:… I would say there’s, uh, a connection, yeah.

Detective: Yeah, and that’s what, that’s why, uh, I’ll be quite frank with you, that’s why, uh, things kind of, um, uh, evolved when uh, the officers talked to you Thursday night.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Uh, we kind of went from there because uh, when I think you discussed with the fact that you were a, uh, a, a, Colonel…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …uh, at the base.

Russell Williams: I was in uniform at the time, so…

Detective: Yeah, so pretty obvious, right?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, so essentially, uh, then the connection with Miss Comeau, um…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …was made. Um, and I believe you’re uh, a door or two down from one of the two, uh, incidents, uh….

Russell Williams: Think, uh…

Detective: …in Tweed.

Russell Williams: … three doors down, yeah.

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: Very close, absolutely.

Detective: Yeah, exactly. So, uh, those are some of the issues I want to discuss with you.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, um, so just getting back to uh, those four incidents that we’re talking about, um, maybe you can just give me a little bit of history as to, uh, your arrival and the uh, and the base in Trenton, when did you start working there?

[edited]

Russell Williams: Friday, on the day I was, um, hm. Friday on the day I was at home most the time, most the day. I had the start of a stomach flu.

Detective: Okay, in Ottawa or Tweed?

Russell Williams: In Tweed.

Detective: In Tweed, okay.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: So, we backtrack then. So, all day Friday you’re at home?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: And then what time do you leave to go to the base to sleep there on the Friday night?

Russell Williams: Um, mm, not sure. Probably just, you know, went in for, just before bed. Uh, so I probably left Tweed at between 8 or 9 or so.

Detective: Okay, uh, and you get to the base and spend the evening there and get up for the five thirty…

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: That’s right.

Detective: So, we back track from there, um, you, when did you arrive at your home, uh, at the cottage? I want, I don’t want you confused between home in Ottawa and the home in Tweed, so.

Russell Williams: Yeah, yeah, understood.

Detective: So, uh…

Russell Williams: No, I have been in Tweed all week.

Detective: Yup.

Russell Williams: Uh, the week prior now, um, yeah. I think that’s the case. I was in Tweed all week. Flew Saturday, headed to Ottawa Saturday night….

Detective: Okay, so, um, if you didn’t have the stomach flu on the Friday, what was your schedule like?

Russell Williams: …I think it was 7 or 8, really.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Um, what would have been my schedule? Just a standard schedule in the office.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, um, I’ll just brief in the morning. Couple of, uh, couple of meetings. Can’t remember what the specifics on that were going to be.

Detective: Okay, so, um, Thursday night you slept at Tweed or you…

Russell Williams: Yup.

Detective: Alright, and what did you do Thursday during the day?

Russell Williams: Thursday during the day I was at the base again. Um, I think it was a very standard day. I can’t recall exactly but uh, yeah, nothing. Was not flying so I was at the base so I would have gone in early in the morning, back in the evening again.

Detective: Okay, do you remember what time you left the base that night?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Mm… I don’t remember anything peculiar so I would say, uh, I don’t know. Probably 7 to 9 somewhere in that range.

Detective: Okay, that’s when you left?

Russell Williams: Left the base, yeah.

Detective:  And what, what’s…

Russell Williams: It’s a 45 minute transit so…

Detective: 45 minutes home.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

[edited]

Detective: Now, I’m not going to walk you through November but I’m going to take you to a date that’s probably pretty fresh in your mind, uh, uh, the day that, uh, that Marie-France, uh, Comeau…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, do you remember how you found out, uh…

Russell Williams: I do, yeah. I was sent an email, um [sighs]. Well, as soon as the, uh, off staff in the base learned they told me.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So I got an email. I can’t remember if it was late at night or in the morning but certainly I saw it. Uh, I want to say first thing in the morning because I had just come back from Ottawa. I was in Ottawa for uh, um, a set of meetings on one of the days, I can’t remember what, what day of the week we’re talking about but uh, yeah, no, I mean, obviously one of your people gets killed it, uh, gets your attention, so…

Detective: Absolutely.

Russell Williams: Everyone [inaudible].

Detective: And how did you know Marie-France Comeau?

Russell Williams: I only met her once. Um, she was on a crew, uh, I was on, uh, just after I got to the base.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, uh, I can’t even remember. I think it was a one day trip. Uh, I did a number of trips, uh, in Canada transporting um, our, um, you know troops for the first leg out of Edmonton. Uh, you know we tend to hopscotch them across, uh, until they get in the theater. So anyway, I, I can’t remember which trip it was but uh, I did a number of them out to Edmonton just to, to pick up the troops, bring them to Trenton, and then uh, put a fresh crew on and uh, ‘cause we fly out and back in the same day so pushing the edge of that uh, fresh crew on and continue on after a couple hour delay.

Detective: Okay. Do you know, uh, roughly when that happened?

Russell Williams: That we were on the same crew?

Detective: Eh, the time you met her, the one time there, yeah.

Russell Williams: It was soon after I got to the base so uh, I, I don’t remember exactly but I would say in the first couple of months so August, September.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, now you got that email…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …notifying you that something had happened.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, do you have, uh, any kind of, uh, a clear recollection as to how your schedule is going that week?

Russell Williams: Well, I can’t remember what again, what day that, uh, the message came in. Just a second. Um, no, I can’t remember what day, the day of the week, but I, um… Let me think. There was all a bunch of activity, uh, spun up as a result, obviously. [sighs] No, I can’t remember the day of the week. Um, I’m just trying to think through the news reports I read. No. I’m sorry. I can’t remember what day that was but uh…Well, what I, what we learned after the fact was that the, um, MP’s had learnt uh, of her death. I think quite a bit after her body had been discovered.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, I think what happened, I’m sorry, just a second. Okay. So, I think, if I remember correctly, the MP’s learned late that evening, I can’t remember when. Obviously, her, her body was discovered. It’s probably in news reports but uh, so they learnt and then they passed it to OPS] so they immediately passed it to me.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: The MP’s work for the [inaudible] operations officers so they go, you know, through their chain of command and then as soon as the, uh, the duty watch officer had that information she advised me…

Detective: Okay, um, so again that…

Russell Williams: … along with some others.

Detective: Right, right. I’m sure it spread like wild fire.

Russell Williams: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Detective: Um, so, that particular week, uh, do you have any recollection, well, for instance, when you got the email, uh…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Do you remember where you were?

Russell Williams: I was at home in Tweed.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams:  Yeah.

Detective: Um, do you remember if that was a week you were, um, reasonably stable in Trenton or had you flown a bit?

Russell Williams: No, I had been in Ottawa. I had been in Ottawa earlier in the week, uh, for some meetings over in uh, in Gatineau for one of the um, [inaudible] C17 acquisitions. I was a project director when I was here in Ottawa for that so just some follow up stuff on that.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So I had been here, um, at some point in that week. Again, I can’t remember how the days all fell together but um, I seem to remember that I got this word shortly after having come back from Ottawa. I, seems to me it was the same week.

[edited]

Detective: So, if we were to, uh, to you know, do a similar, uh, investigation into your background, is there, is there anything you can think of that anybody may have misinterpreted or anything, uh, in your history, that somebody might say “Russell Williams, uh”….

Russell Williams: Absolutely not.

Detective: …did this?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Be very boring.

Detective: What’s that?

Russell Williams: It’ll be very boring.

Detective: [laughs] alright, ‘Cause and essentially that’s what I’m looking at is that, uh…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, uh, you seem like a very intelligent person, and I think you can see how, um, a surprise like that would, uh, certainly…

Russell Williams: Absolutely.

Detective: … send some alarm bells on an…

Russell Williams:  There’s nothing.

Detective: …investigation. Okay?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, so the next thing we need to cover off is, uh, well, I’ll just ask you this straight out. Uh, given the types of crimes we’re investigating, uh, do you get much chance to, uh, to watch television shows, CSI, things like that?

Russell Williams: I do watch, uh, I prefer Law and Order but I do watch CSI occasionally, yes.

Detective: Okay, so you have an idea of, obviously the forensic capabilities, things like that, are out there.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: What would you be willing to give me today to help me, uh, move past you in this investigation.

Russell Williams: What, uh, what do you need?

Detective: Well, um, well do you want to supply things like fingerprints, blood samples?

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Things like that.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay. Um, footwear impressions.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, alright. Um, I think that’s what we’re going, we’re going to ask you to do.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Alright, now we have a process we have to go through to do that.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, and for the blood sample, I don’t take the blood sample. We have specially trained officers that are trained to do that.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Uh, I’m going to step out and make sure they’re still available.

[edited]

Russell Williams: Can I assume you’re going to be discreet?

Detective: As possible, yeah.

Russell Williams: ‘Cause uh, you know, this would have a very significant impact on the Base if they thought you thought I did this.

Detective: Well, uh [inaudible] Russell, that’s one of the reasons we’re here on a Sunday afternoon.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, uh, the uh, military’s certainly been of great assistance uh, to us.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Especially in relation to Miss Comeau’s investigation.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: So that’s certainly one of the things that went into our decision to, to give you a call at home today and see if we could deal with this today.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: So, okay, um…

Russell Williams: ‘Cause it’s tough to undo the rumor mill once it gets started… but I appreciate that.

Detective: Okay.

[edited]

Detective:  Now that you’ve had some time to, uh, and I know we’ve been throwing a lot of things at you here but now you’ve had some time to, to think about things, um, is there anything, uh, that you’re concerned about, uh, that Buccal swab matching in any of those four residences.

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Um, is there, I guess, let me explain what I’m getting at here Russell. Okay, um, this is a significant investigation as you can, as you can…

Russell Williams: Yeah, absolutely.

Detective: Well, imagine…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, but, uh, that DNA is going to be uh, significant in our investigation both…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: … you know, quite possibly to help you, quite possibly to help us.

Russell Williams: Yeah, understood.

Detective: I don’t know yet, I don’t know what the result is yet.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, and I’ll go back to the example I gave you ‘cause they’re very similar, uh, issue, I think. Um, and you talked about the idea of discretion here…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, uh, you talked about the idea that, uh, um, you know, you, well I think hopefully you appreciate the fact of how we approached you here.

Russell Williams: Yeah, absolutely.

Detective: Um, and essentially, uh, we have no issues with that, okay? Um, we, we talked recently about, you know, the whole idea of any unusual sex acts of your history.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, but another thing can often happen in cases like this is that people um, become concerned about uh, um, things like extramarital affairs.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, indiscretions along those lines.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, is there any contact that you may have had with any of those four women, um, that you may not want your wife to be aware of? Anything like that, that we should know about to try and uh, explain why if, if your DNA is found?

Russell Williams: [inhales deeply]

Detective: To help us understand why it may be there.

Russell Williams: Absolutely not. [sighs}.

Detective: Can you think of any reason, um, why we would find you DNA in any of those residences?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Let’s, let’s focus on well, for instance [edited] house, I believe.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Let me just check the name there. Make sure I’ve got the right address. Talking about the house that was just a couple doors down from you there on the, in Tweed.

Russell Williams: Couple doors down was…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: Laurie, I don’t know her last name. I don’t know.

[edited]

Detective: Massicotte.

Russell Williams: I don’t even know what her last name is but uh, there’s uh, uh, the, the, woman down the road three doors down was…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: … her name was Laurie. I don’t know her last name.

Detective: Alright, I’ll just make sure we’re on the same page here. Mm, yeah. My understanding is she lived at 76 Cozy Cove. Yeah, so she would be the one, the second one, uh, the second incident on you, on your road there.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Couple doors down. Ever been in her house?

Russell Williams: No. We met her once, I think the first summer, um, we were there, so in ’04.

Detective: Okay and that’s what I’m getting at. I, I’d, I, again this is a credibility issue.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Russ, because I, I don’t want to come and see you two weeks from now and say, you know, Russ, uh…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … our CSI people were in that house uh, are you familiar with how C, uh, DNA works?

Russell Williams: I think broadly, yes, I…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: … would guess so.

Detective: Um, one of the challenges we have in 2010, DNA has become so, um, precise that uh, I guess the best way to explain it is, I can think of 15 years ago when I started in, uh, violent crime investigations…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … um, for us to get DNA match the sample we had to find was, um, you know, probably would’ve filled half of on of these cups.

Russell Williams: Does it, yeah.

Detective: You know, ‘cause they destroy so much of the uh, the sample and, and, the testing.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, essentially DNA has become more and more precise to the point where when you and I walked in this room earlier today…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, we could’ve sat down, talked for 30 seconds…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …walked out. CSI officer could’ve come in three, four days from now…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective:… did some swabs here and he would’ve found your DNA and my DNA…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …and probably a lot of other people’s DNA.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Um, little bit gross to think about but essentially, uh, you know as we talk, um, we, you know, a little bit of aspirate comes out of our mouths….

Russell Williams: Yeah, no. I understand.

Detective: … that, uh, contains our bloods or uh, our skin cells contain our DNA…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …and that’s what I’m getting at. If you were ever in Laurie’s residence…

Russell Williams: Um…

Detective: Quite possibly, quite innocently, your DNA could be, uh, in that residence. Has there ever been a time you’ve been in there?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, um, what about the other lady down the road.

Russell Williams: I hadn’t even heard that name so, no, I don’t, I don’t, actually know who that was.

Detective: Okay. Have you ever visited uh, um, Marie-France Comeau at her residence?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, alright. Um, so you’re quite positive there’d be no reason why your DNA would be in any…

Russell Williams: Absolutely.

Detective: …of those…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …three locations. Okay, um, did you know Jessica Lloyd, even in passing for any reason?

Russell Williams: No, I didn’t hear her name until it was on the news.

Detective: Okay and the reason I’m asking you that, uh, is because, um, I know you were asked that question Thursday night and sometimes we find and again, this is one of those situations that can sometimes cause us to get into lengthy investigation is somebody that…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …maybe doesn’t deserve it…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: ..uh, but what, what can happen sometimes is they, you know, somebody gets stopped by the police like you did and they, uh, get asked that question and people, when they’re stopped by the police, they can be nervous, okay?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, so they blurt out an answer and they start driving away and they’re all “why’d I do that” because the problem is, is that once they, uh, get asked again, then they feel compelled to maintain that answer for fear that if they change their answers…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …somebody could find that. Do you understand what I’m saying?

Russell Williams: I do.

Detective: Okay, so I want to make sure that’s not happening here. I don’t care what you said to the officers on Thursday.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Last week, um, if there’s any, uh, communication or contact between you and Jessica Lloyd, you seen her picture, right?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Around town.

Russell Williams: Yeah, I saw it.

Detective: Okay, ever seen her before?

Russell Williams: I don’t, no, I would say I have not.

Detective: Okay, alright. Alright, and you mentioned something about uh, doing some renovations at your, uh, at your property in Tweed there. Um, I think you said something earlier about tearing up carpet. Correct me if I’m wrong but…

Russell Williams: Oh yeah.

Detective: Okay, when did all that happen?

Russell Williams: In 2004, or 2005.

Detective: Okay, any recent, uh, renovations?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, alright.

Detective: Just want to make sure I’m covering all the bases here. Um, okay, what kind of tires do you have on your Pathfinder?

Russell Williams: I think, um, I think they’re Toyo.

Detective: Okay, but do you have a brand name or sorry, uh, the, uh…

Russell Williams: I that, is that.

Detective: Make…

Russell Williams: Um, I don’t, sorry. The, the make is Toyo.

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: I don’t know the model.

Detective: Okay, just, uh, I’ll uh, read this off to you. See if it rings a bell… You ever heard of uh, does Toyo Open Country HTS…

Russell Williams: That’s sounds right.

Detective: Does that make sense?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, when did you have those tires put on your Pathfinder?

Russell Williams: Well, it’s the second version we’ve had of them so, uh, I think it might’ve been this past fall. They replaced other ones we had on the same…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Well, Toyo. I can’t say that they were the same exactly, the same model, but uh, our dealership here in Ottawa says they’re very popular for the Pathfinder so…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: … and they were good. They lasted a long time.

Detective: Alright, um, I’ve had uh, you were talking about the, the whole idea of the MP’s, uh, helping us with our investigation…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: … stuff like this. Uh, you have the same system as we do at our headquarters with the swipe cards…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: One of the things, uh, one of our investigators did is they made a call while I was talking to you there, um, because we’re trying to work through that week of the, uh, 23rd of November.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, 23rd being the Monday, uh, 24th being the Tuesday.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, what, what they’ve, what they’ve told us is that um, and I want to make sure I get this right, is that, uh, on the 23rd, uh, your swipe card was being used at the base, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: On Tuesday the 24th there was no use of your swipe card.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, and then on the uh, the following days, uh, the Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, um, there was what appeared to be average activity of…

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: …your swipe card on the base. Does that make sense to you?

Russell Williams: It does but that says that I was in Ottawa on the Tuesday.

Detective: Okay. Do you remember where, uh, in Ottawa you were?

Russell Williams: Yeah, I was in uh, Gatineau with uh, as I said, meeting about the uh, C17.

Detective: Okay, um, now again I want to be fair to you here. We’re going back 2 months.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, are you sure that would’ve been the, uh, the day you were in Ottawa.

Russell Williams: Well, only because I wasn’t at the Base.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, I, I can’t remember honestly that that’s the day that I had the meeting in Ottawa but uh, if I wasn’t at the Base it was because I was there.

Detective: Okay, now if that is the day you had a meeting in Ottawa, um, do you remember being at the Base on the Monday, uh, the 23rd and swiping your card in and out? Do you remember what you would’ve done that evening to, to, to get to Ottawa for that meeting? Like, would it be, uh…

Russell Williams: I drove to Ottawa in the morning of the day of my meeting. So, if it was the Tuesday then I would’ve left uh, Tweed. It was a very foggy morning.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Uh, that morning and I drove in that morning…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, I would not have been at the Base, uh, the day I was in Ottawa ‘cause the meeting started at eight thirty or something.

Detective: Okay, so you leave the Base, you would’ve went home to, to your residence in Tweed.

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: And then you left Tweed in the morning and drove up to your meeting in Ottawa.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, um, you leave the, the meeting in Ottawa, is it a daytime meeting, an evening meeting  or do you remember?

Russell Williams: Uh, yeah it was, uh, uh, a daytime meeting. Finished, I don’t know, mid afternoon or so.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: We had lunch and then uh, finished. I think uh, my wife and I had dinner ‘cause she was here for work and then I headed back.

Detective: Okay, uh, well, that’s, these are the kinds of things I’m trying to draw out here. That’s helpful to us. Um, do you remember where you had dinner?

Russell Williams: [laugh] Uh, well, I don’t remember exactly the restaurant, but it was in Westboro ‘cause that’s where our house was being built at the time so we had dinner. You know, in a restaurant that we would expect to be able to frequent, uh, once the house was finished.

Detective: Okay, do you remember how you paid?

Russell Williams: Uh, one of us would’ve paid by Mastercard, mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, are you sure about that or…

Russell Williams: Pretty sure. That’s normally how we, uh…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …we pay for meals.

Detective: Alright.

Russell Williams: Can’t remember if it was me or my wife that paid but one of us.

Detective: Okay, and do you remember which restaurant it was again?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, alright, and you see where I’m getting at, right? I mean the, that can be very helpful for us…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … because we can track…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … uh that issue, right?

Russell Williams: Oh yeah.

Detective: And we can put somebody paying for a meal at, at a location.

Russell Williams: No, yeah. I was meeting with, uh, you know, 15 people or so that day so…

Detective: Okay, what time did the meeting end?

Russell Williams: [sighs] I would say between 3 and 4.

Detective: Okay, and um, are you sure that that’s the same day you went with your wife?

Russell Williams: Well, I think so. Yeah, ‘cause she was here and uh, I, I think that was the day we went to this restaurant in Westboro, yes.

Detective: Okay, um, you finished dinner and do you remember what you did that evening?

Russell Williams: I would’ve driven back to Tweed.

Detective: Okay, and you would’ve, now again, uh, I know we’re talking 2 months ago here but do you…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …remember specifically having dinner and then driving back to Tweed or uh, do you remember or are you just guessing here?

Russell Williams: No, I’m not really guessing. I mean, I, I believe that this night at this restaurant it was following the meetings in Ottawa…

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: …and I, you know, kissed my wife goodbye and headed back to Tweed…

Detective:  Okay.

Russell Williams: …to go to work the next day.

Detective: Okay, um, alright. The, uh, the tires that you have on your truck right, the reason I want to ask you about that is there is, there, anytime I mean, that you recall, uh, where you were stopped, um, by the officers there…

Russell Williams: Yes.

Detective: …yeah, did they explain to you what the significance…

Russell Williams: Said that was her house.

Detective: That was her house, right.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: So you remember that location?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Do you remember what the crossroad was or…

Russell Williams: I don’t think there was a crossroad. It sort of just, uh, on the south end of 37.

Detective: Okay, um, when you get stopped at that location, has there been a time in the recent, uh, 1 or 2 weeks that uh, your vehicle has uh, left that road for any reason what so ever? Have you driven into a field with your vehicle at all, um, for any reason that you can think of?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, um, so I want you to rack your brain here. This is important.

Russell Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Detective: So is there anything you can remember doing that uh, you know, would cause you to, to, drive off the road…

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: … at that section of roadway?

Russell Williams: No, that’s my early, uh, that’s the early part of the highway and I’m just heading North. It’s about 30 minutes from there to uh, no, probably 20 from there to my house.

Detective: Okay, um, would it surprise you to know that, uh, when the CSI officers were, uh, looking around her property, uh, that they identified um, a set of tire tracks, uh, to the north of her property, uh, looks as if a vehicle left the road…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And uh, drove along the north tree line of, of, uh, Jessica Lloyd’s property, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, they took, uh, they, they, examined those tire tracks…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And uh, they have contacts in the tire business, obviously.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Tire tracks…

Russell Williams: Mm=hm.

Detective: …are a major source of uh, evidence for us.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Um, shortly after um, this investigation started they identified those tires as the same, uh, tires on your Pathfinder.

Russell Williams: Really?

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, one of the other, uh, one of the other things that they do to try and identify the type vehicle that may have those tires…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Well, they do two things. They talk to witnesses…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, um there was uh, a female police officer that actually drove by that location that evening.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: … and recalls seeing an SUV type vehicle in the field up to the north of Jessica Lloyd’s house, uh, consistent with uh, a Pathfinder.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: It may be consistent with other things but consistent…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …with a Pathfinder. Um, and they, uh, what they also do to try to identify they type of the vehicle is they look at, uh, what they call the wheelbase width.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, ‘cause different vehicles different makes, models, have wheelbase width so…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …they can take those 2 sets of tire tracks, measure the distance between them…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, and determine what the, uh, what the width is.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: And then they can enter that into a vehicle database and it will spit out the types of vehicles.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, um, your Pathfinder’s uh, wheelbase width is very very close to the width of the uh, the, of the tires, uh, that were left in that field.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, um, do you have any recollection at all of being off the road?

Russell Williams: No, I was not off the road, no.

Detective: Okay, alright Russell. [sighs] Um, is there anything you can think of… Let’s go talk about Marie-Fances Comeau for a minute, okay?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Is there any reason at all you can think of that during our investigation, obviously we’re searching, uh, computers, things like Blackberries, right?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Electronic devices, uh, looking through houses for things that are in handwriting, written notes, diaries, things like that.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective:  Um, and I’m not at liberty to tell you what the content was but is there any reason at all that you can think of why Marie-France Comeau would’ve specifically referenced you in some of her, uh, in some of her writings?

Russell Williams: Not at all.

Detective: No?

Russell Williams: No, absolutely not. [laughs]

Detective: Okay, is there anything that she ever said to you that lead you to believe that there may have been something, uh, more than a passing interest with her towards you?

Russell Williams: Not at all, no. We spent, you know, one flight together talking. I’d go back occasionally and talk. No, I, uh, if that’s the case, that’s uh, that’s very surprising.

Detective: Okay, alright. Um, do you have any questions for me right now?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, I’m just going to step out and see how things are going, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: I mean, it is a Sunday but there’s probably 60, 70 people working on this file so there’s…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …a lot of things happening.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Uh, so let me go out and see what’s happening and then I’ll come back in and we’ll, we’ll hopefully, continue, okay?

[edited]

Detective: I told you when I came in here, uh, that I’ll treat you with respect and I’ve asked you to do the same for me. Um, we talked about the whole idea of how we’ve uh, uh, approached you here, okay. Uh, trying to be as discreet as possible.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, but the problem is Russell, is every time I walk out of this room there’s another issue that comes up, okay, and it’s not issues that point away from you. It’s issues that point at you, okay? And I want, I want you to see what I mean.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Alright, this is the footwear impression of the person who approached the rear of Jessica Lloyd’s house…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …on the evening of the 28th and 29th of January.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, alright. Now I want you to keep in mind that this is slightly smaller, okay, than scale, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Alright, that’s not to scale. That’s, that footwear is actually bigger.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: If you look here on the ruler you’ll see that. Uh, one inch is just slightly smaller than an actual inch.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Alright, but this is the way it prints off on your computer.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: I’ll move this over so you can see what I mean, Alright? Essentially when you’re dealing with footwear impressions, um, we have a gentleman on the OPP who’s uh, basically world-renowned, uh, his name is John Norman…

Russell Williams: Mm.

Detective: …and essentially with footwear impressions, uh, you’re in a situation where you’re, you’re pretty much in the area of, uh, fingerprints.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, and essentially what we’re talking about here is when, especially when you start adding other pieces of, of, uh, information…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …that, uh, support, uh, an investigative position.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, this is a photocopy of the boot that uh, you took off your foot…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …just a little while ago.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, now I’m not an expert in footwear impressions. I rely on the experts. Footwear impressions are very much like, uh, like fingerprint comparisons, Okay? You take a look at this print and again. This one print…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …this person walked through. There’s several different prints to compare.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: So, we’re going to get features off of one print to compare features off another print to compare.

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: These are identical, okay? Your vehicle drove up the side of Jessica Lloyd’s house. Your boots walked to the back of Jessica Lloyd’s house on the evening of the 28th and 29th of January, okay? You want discretion, we need to have some honesty, okay? Because this is, this is getting out of control really fast, Russel, okay? Really, really fast.

Russell Williams: [sniffs] hmm [sighs]

Detective: This is getting beyond my control, alright? I came in here a few hours ago and I called you the way I called you today because I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …but you and I both know you were at Jessica Lloyd’s house and I need to know why.

Russell Williams: Well, I don’t know what to say, it’s, um…

Detective: Well, you need to explain it because this is the other problem we’re having Russell, okay? Again, these decisions are made by me…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Right now there’s warrant being executed at your residence in Ottawa, okay? So your wife now knows what’s going on. There’s a search warrant being executed at the, your residence in Tweed and your vehicles been seized, okay? You and I both know they’re going to find evidence that links you to these situations, okay? You and I both know that the unknown offender, male DNA on Marie-France Comeau’s body is going to be matched to you, quite possible before the evening’s over, okay? This is a major investigation. The Center of Forensic Science is on call 24 hours a day helping us with this.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Your opportunity to take some control here and to have some explanation that anybody’s going to believe is quickly expiring.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, we’re applying, the investigators now applying for a warrant to search your office. Uh, these aren’t decisions that we can say yes or no to. This is the practical steps…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …in an investigation like this.

Russell Williams: [sighs]

Detective: And Russell… Russell…

Russell Williams:  Mm-hm.

Detective: Listen to me for a second, okay? When that evidence comes in and that DNA match, when that phone rings, and somebody knocks on this door…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Your credibility is gone, okay, because this is how credibility works, alright, and I know you’re an intelligent person and you probably don’t need to hear this explanation but I also know your minds racing right now, okay, cause I sat across from a lot of people in your position over the years…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …okay, the bottom line is, is that as soon as we get that piece of evidence that solidifies it…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …DNA. Okay, as soon as the expert in footwear impressions, the expert in tire impressions calls me “yes, yes I examined those and they’re…”

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: “…a match”

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: It’s all over because as soon as that happens, where’s your credibility? Where’s your believability? You’re just another, um, and again, don’t take this the wrong way, okay, but you can see if you step outside this room in your mind, and imagine how people are going to view you, okay? If the truth comes out after the clear evidence is presented to you when you finally go “okay, I’m screwed now”…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

[edited]

Detective: What are we going to do, Russell? You know there’s only one option. What are you, what are you, what other option is there?

Russell Williams: What’s the option?

Detective: Well, I don’t think you want the cold blooded psychopath option. I might be wrong eh, ‘cause don’t get me wrong, I’ve met guys who actually kind of enjoyed the notoriety, got off on it. Got off on having that label. Bernardo being one of them. I don’t see that in you. If I saw that in you, I wouldn’t even be back in here talking to you, quite frankly, but maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you got me fooled. I don’t know. This is over and it can have a, a bad ending where Jessica’s parents continue wondering where her daughters lying.

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: I don’t know. I mean, obviously there’s a huge search still under way and it will continue, it will continue until her body’s found. That might even happen tonight for all I know. Once that happens, then I don’t know what other cards you would have to play. What are you going to do?

[silence]

Detective: Russell, what are we going to do?

Russell Williams: Call me Russ, please.

Detective: Okay, what are we going to do, Russ?

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: Is Jessica somewhere we can find her easily? Like is it something where I can make a call and tell somebody to go to a location they’re going to find her or is this something where we have to go and, and, um, take a walk…

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: Which direction are we heading in here?

[Silence]

Detective: Russ, maybe, maybe this would help, can you tell me what the issue is you’re struggling with?

[Silence]

Detective: What’s the issue you’re struggling with?

Russell Williams: [sigh]

[Silence]

Russell Williams: [sniff] It’s hard to believe this is happening.

Detective: Why is that?

[Silence]

Detective: Why is it hard to believe?

Russell Williams: [sigh]

[Silence]

Russell Williams: Um, it’s just, it’s just hard to believe. [sigh]

Detective: Who’s decision was it, when we’re going to find out the answer to this anyway but who’s decision was it to issue the, uh, directive to the base personnel that nobody had to speak to the police and to seek legal counsel before they were questioned. Because my unders…

Russell Williams: I don’t think that was issued.

Detective: My understand that direction came from somebody that reports to you. What do you think they’re going to say?

Russell Williams: Well…

Detective: Russ…

Russell Williams: No, no.

Detective: What do you think they’re going to say, alright? Uh, and lets, lets step back for a second here, okay? I really don’t think it benefits you or makes you look any better to start debating the little issues.

Russell Williams: No, no but that is news to me.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: I have a legal officer that reports to me…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: …who may have given that direction…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …but that’s the first time I’ve heard it, if that’s true, that’s the first time I’ve heard that.

Detective: Alright, and that may be the case but how does it look? We’re not even dealing with something that’s really, uh, evidence cause it’s not needed, I mean…

Russell Williams: No, no but that…

Detective: We’ve got DNA and all this over stuff that’s not even needed.

Russell Williams: What was the direction?

Detective: I don’t recall but it was something along the lines of, uh, telling the people on the base that they didn’t, uh, they weren’t required legally to speak with the police and they should seek legal counsel before the decide to speak but…

Russell Williams: Well if that was, if that was actually said, it would not have been to the base at large. It, it may have been to the individual they, uh, the boyfriend who is the suspect.

Detective: Well, I understanding it went out to all personnel.

Russell Williams: No, absolutely not.

Detective: Maybe, maybe, no, only on your command, I don’t know.

Russell Williams: It didn’t.

Detective: Right, okay. That’s fine.

Russell Williams: I did never see it.

Detective: That’s fine. Now let’s get back to the issue.

[edited]

Detective: What’s that?

Russell Williams: When you talk about perception my only 2 immediate concerns from a perception perspective are what my wife must be going through right now…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: … and the impact this is going to have on the Canadian Forces.

[edited]

Detective: Where do we go? Russ, is there anything you want from me? Is there anything you want me to explain? Is there something missing you’re struggling with that I can shed some light on for you?

Russell Williams: [sigh] No, I’m struggling with how upset my wife is right now.

[edited]

Detective: Russ, what are you looking for?

Russell Williams: I’m concerned that they’re tearing apart my wife’s brand new house.

Detective: So am I but if nobody tells them what’s there and what’s not, they don’t have no choice.

[edited]

Detective: Computers have been brought to Microsoft in California. They’ll be, they’ll be picking apart, you can’t erase things from computers, it doesn’t happen, I’m sure you’ve seen that, I’m sure that’s pretty common knowledge these days. It just doesn’t happen. They sell programs that uh, to try and help people clean their computers and stuff and our guys are pulling that stuff out all the time. The FBI’s pulling that stuff out all the time. This investigation will end up costing no less than ten million dollars, easy and they will say no to nothing. Any requests this major case manager makes on this case, they’ve already been told it’s approved, don’t even bother asking. So, what I am doing, Russ, I put my best foot forward here for you, bud, I really have. I don’t, I don’t know what else to do to, to make, make you understand the impact of what’s happening here. Do we talk?

Russell Williams: I want to um, minimize the impact on my wife.

Detective: So, do I.

Russell Williams: So how do we do that?

Detective: Well, you start by telling the truth.

[Silence]

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Alright, so where is she?

[Silence]

Russell Williams: Got a map?

Detective: Um, is she close to where she lives? I got maps of that general area. Which town is she near? Why don’t we start there?

Russell Williams: I’m not sure but if you give me a map of um, that covers Kaladar down to the highway and over to Tweed and south, I’ll show you.

Detective: Let me see what I got here. I might have something. Is she inside, outside?

Russell Williams: Outside.

[Silence]

Detective: That’s probably the biggest area that I have there, Russ.

Russell Williams: You need more. You need a real map.

Detective: So, where am I going on the, on here to get to her.

Russell Williams: [sighs] in this block here.

Detective: Okay, so you’re pointing to…

Russell Williams: You need a, a detailed map of that area and I’ll show you where she is…

Detective: Okay, is she close to a road?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Alright, um, is this something where, is she, is she buried or is she…

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: … Somewhere where if you walk there you would, you would fairly easily see her?

Russell Williams: It’s here.

Detective: Okay so she’s south of 7, uh, east of Tweed.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: West of 41.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And uh, what’s this road here?

Russell Williams: I’m not sure.

Detective: Neither am I, okay. I’ll be right back, okay? Do you want any water or anything?

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Okay, I’ll be right back. How long has she been there for?

Russell Williams: A little over a week.

Detective: Was it fairly quick from the time she left?

Russell Williams: Friday night.

Detective: Friday night.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: So, where does she go between Thursday night and Friday night?

Russell Williams: In Tweed.

Detective: With you?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: How long was she alive for?

Russell Williams: Almost 24 hours. Not quite.

Detective: Okay. Russ, you’re doing the right thing here, okay?

Russell Williams: Well, again, my interest is in, uh, into my, my wife’s life a little easier.

Detective: Yeah, okay.

Russell Williams: And with her family as well.

Detective: Oh, we share that interest.

Russell Williams: But there’s no, uh, your time in Ottawa is wasted really. I’ll tell you where the memory stick cards are.

Detective: Where are they?

Russell Williams: They’re in the house there but…

Detective: In Ottawa.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Whereabouts?

Russell Williams: Um, some in the camera bag, which they would have found in my office.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: And in the, when you walk into the office, on the left side, there’s a um, uh, desk, uh, drawers…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: …set of drawers like a filing cabinet, wooden, Ikea, in one of the top two drawers and there’s a plastic divider…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: …and there’s uh, inside there, there are 2 memory cards.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Which are blank but I’m sure they can be re, uh…

Detective: And who’s images are on those cards?

Russell Williams: Uh, well, the, I have erased them but I expect, uh, you’ll be able to draw images of uh, Jessica and I.

Detective: What about Marie?

Russell Williams: There may be images on there as well.

Detective: And the 2 women from September?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Okay, do you have those images stored anywhere else?

Russell Williams: Yep, they’re um, 2 hard drives in the house in Ottawa. I can draw you a little picture of it.

Detective: Sure. Do you want to do that now while I’m…

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: …out getting the map, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay. [clears throat]

Detective: Want anything to eat or anything? I’ll leave that right there, okay?

Russell Williams: Thank you. But I do want to talk to you again.

Detective: That’s the plan, okay? I’ll be right back.

Russell Williams: Okay.

[Door shuts]

Detective: How you making out there? How you making out?

Russell Williams: Alright.

[Door shuts]

Detective: I got somebody running around looking for an actual map but uh, I did the same thing with uh, the Google maps except blew them up a little bit more, um, this is the, this is the biggest of the area. I’m hoping this might have better parameters for you. There’s Tweed.

Russell Williams: Point 7, a kilometer from this intersection on this side of the road.

Detective: And what road is that? Cary?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: South of, can’t read that word, uh, East Hungerford.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Does that make sense? Oh, there it is, there. Okay.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: How far off the road is she?

Russell Williams: 40 feet.

Detective: Is she bur.., is she covered with anything?

Russell Williams: No, she’s wrapped up.

Detective: In what?

Russell Williams: And she’s on the surface. Just a grey something or other cover.

Detective: Okay, very obvious question I’m going to have for you is when they go there, and they’ll be there shortly…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm…

Detective: They’re going to find her?

Russell Williams: Oh yeah.

[edited]

Detective: Okay, I’ll be right back. You look like you want to say something.

Russell Williams: Just that the, this place, my wife, it’s been a dream for her, for a better part of the year so I’m keen to get them what they need and so they can leave her alone.

Detective: Okay, we, uh, we’ll going to do our best to keep it as low key as possible, okay?

[edited]

Detective: Okay, well, what do you want to talk about?

Russell Williams: I guess it’s, uh, pretty wide open now, eh?

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: What do you want to know?

Detective: Well, do you want to work forwards or backwards?

Russell Williams: It doesn’t matter.

Detective: Why don’t we start with Jessica?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: How does that start for you?

Russell Williams: Um, well, I saw her in her house on her treadmill Wednesday night, I guess. And I noticed she wasn’t, uh, there Thursday so I got in the house to look around. Then, um, then I left. Noticed she’d come home, so I went back in through the back patio door while she was, uh, sleeping.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, I woke her up. Didn’t, um, didn’t hit her. I only hit her once, Friday night. [sigh]

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Well, so I raped her in, uh, in her house and then I took her to the car and took her to Tweed and um, spent the day in Tweed and I hit her, um, as we were walking. She thought we were leaving. I hit her on the back of the head.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: You want to know anything particular?

Detective: Well, um, what did the hit on the back of the head do?

Russell Williams: Well, I was surprised it, uh, her, her skull gave way. She was there and immediately unconscious, then I strangled her.

Detective: Okay, what did you hit her with?

Russell Williams: A flash light.

Detective: Okay, in the house or outside the house?

Russell Williams: In the house. Yeah, they’ll find signs of that.

Detective: Where in the house did this happen?

Russell Williams: In the main portion, just in front of the fireplace.

Detective: What do you mean they’ll find signs of it?

Russell Williams: Well, there’s quite a bit of blood I hadn’t expected. I expected to knock her out but obviously generated a lot of blood.

Detective: What did she bleed onto?

Russell Williams: The floor. It’s just a tile floor.

Detective: Okay. Did you clean it up or did you…

Russell Williams: I wiped it up. I know it’ll be, uh, easily spotted.

Detective: What makes you think that? Like, if I walked in that house…

Russell Williams: Well, you wouldn’t notice.

Detective: …right now, would I see it?

Russell Williams: You wouldn’t see it, not at all but uh, you know, the right science will…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Uh, will show it, I’m sure.

Detective: Okay, um, so when that happened was she, did she have clothes on or was she naked?

Russell Williams: Yeah, she was dressed.

Detective: Okay, so when we find her, is she going to have those clothes on, too?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Alright, um, okay, Marie-France, uh, Comeau.

Russell Williams: There was an open window in the basement of her, uh, her house. When she was away I went in there, um, a couple nights before, uh, she came home, looked around. I went back in there, uh, late at night when she was at home. Was on the phone in her bedroom. She actually discovered me in the basement. She was trying to get her cat to come upstairs and the cat was in the basement. It seen me and was fixated on me in the corner. She couldn’t get the cat up, so, uh, she came downstairs. Trying to get the cat and uh, I’m not quite sure why she uh, came over to me. I guess the cat was staring at me and she was wondering why the cat was staring at. The lights were on. So when she spotted me, I, uh, had the same flashlight. I subdued her, tied her up, brought her upstairs. And um, strangled her later in the morning. Well, more suffocated her with some tape [sigh] left her there.

Detective: How do you subdue her, when you said subdue her in the basement, what did you do?

Russell Williams: Well, I had the same flashlight and um, you know it was, she, she saw me right away so it was just, uh, hit her a couple of times and around her head trying and knock her out. Didn’t but um, was bleeding a little bit. Uh, eventually, um, after a struggle, subdued her.

Detective: Okay, any blood from that struggle?

Russell Williams: Oh, yeah. No, not, not a whole bunch but uh, the flashlight did break her skin a couple of times.

Detective: Okay. What area of the basement did that take place in?

Russell Williams: I was hiding behind the furnace, so she spotted me right there.

Detective: Okay, did she recognize you?

Russell Williams: No, I had, uh, stuff on my face.

Detective: Um, so you go upstairs, and you said, uh, she suffocated…

Russell Williams: Well, I suffocated her. I put tape on her, um, I put tape on her mouth and then I put tape on her, uh, nose and held it there so she couldn’t breathe.

Detective: Okay, um, what kind of tape was it?

Russell Williams: Duct tape.

Detective: What happened to it?

Russell Williams: Uh, well, I took it with me and uh, can’t, can’t remember what actually I did with that tape but uh, probably threw it in the garbage.

Detective: Did you use tape for any other purposes?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, um, did she ever recognize you through this whole incident?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: What did you say you had on your face?

Russell Williams: I had, just a, a cover for my head. Just to, you know, uh, a sports, you know, pull over type like just a little cap kind of thing.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Just a [inaudible] or something and a um, just a headband over my nose and mouth so it covered most everything but my eyes.

Detective: Okay, um, now this flashlight, where is that now?

Russell Williams: In Tweed.

Detective: In the house?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: What kind of flashlight is it?

Russell Williams: It’s a red, uh, 3 double D, um, I’m not sure what brand it is but it’s metal, you know, or it’s aluminum. It’s like a big, um, I can’t remember what brand [inaudible] flashlights are [inaudible] yeah, it’s a big bigger one of those.

Detective: Um, did you take anything out of Marie-Frances’ house or Jessica Lloyd’s house?

Russell Williams: Uh, yeah, some of their, uh, underwear.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: That’s all.

Detective: And where’s that?

Russell Williams: Um, it’s in some boxes in the basement here in Ottawa in that wreck room. We just moved in so there’s boxes everywhere so on the same side as the furnace room. It’s sort of the back against the wall.

Detective: Okay, what do the boxes look like?

Russell Williams: Um, I think one’s a scanner, the box for my scanner.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: They’re, they’re all right next to each other so a quick look through the boxes there, you’ll find them.

Detective: How much underwear is in those boxes?

Russell Williams: Um, well, probably 60 pieces or so total.

Detective: All women’s?

Russell Williams: Yeah. 60 pieces of their’s.

Detective: Of who’s?

Russell Williams: Of Jessica’s and uh, Marie-France.

Detective: So, you took 60 pieces from between the 2 of them?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: I think so.

Detective: Alright, uh, and they’re in a like, when you talk about scanners, is it a computer scanner box?

Russell Williams: My computer scanner is up in the office and it’s box is down in the basement, so…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …it’s inside that box.

Detective: Is any of the underwear in those boxes belong to anyone other than Marie-France or uh, or Jessica?

Russell Williams: Um, yeah, there’s some from each of the other 2 women.

Detective: Okay, uh, why don’t we talk about those 2 women?

Russell Williams: Mm.

Detective: Um, so the first one happened on the 16th and I don’t know why I can’t recall their names but uh [edited] the lady that was, uh, the closer to you.

Russell Williams: No, Laurie was closer to me.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So the first uh, the first one [edited]

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: So the first, uh, the first one of them, I just spotted her from her boat actually and I got into the house while she was uh, asleep. Noticed that she was alone and uh, I just hit her with my hand while she was sleeping. Subdued her mostly just my weight on top of her, um, had her, took off her pajamas, took some pictures, took some of her underwear and left.

Detective: And the other woman?

Russell Williams: Same kind of deal, I went through the back of the house. She was sleeping in her, um, not in her bedroom but her, you know, in front of the TV, very much the same story.

Detective: Anything different about that story? I mean, uh, pretty much the same story, exactly the same story are 2 different things, right?

Russell Williams: Yeah, no. Uh, not much difference at all. Um, I did have the flashlight, that time. I hit her with the flashlight and thinking it would knock her out. Didn’t, so I subdued her with my weight, took off her clothes, took some pictures and left.

Detective: Why do you think these things happen?

Russell Williams: [sniff] I don’t know… I don’t know.

Detective: Have you spent much time thinking about that?

Russell Williams: About why?

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: Yeah but I don’t know the answers and I’m pretty sure the answers don’t matter.

Detective: Well, let me, let me ask you this, did you like or dislike these women?

Russell Williams: I didn’t know any of them.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: I had met Marie-France that one time in the, in our airplane.

Detective: Okay, now, uh, I guess what I’m getting at, when you’re going through these things, um, are you in, well let me, Jessica cause she was there with you for the whole day, right?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: What kind of feelings were you experiencing while you were with her that day?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Uh, she’s a very nice girl.

Detective: Can you tell me why you killed her, Russ? Do you know why you killed her?

[edited]

Russell Williams: Well, I think I killed her because I knew that, uh, her story would be recognized.

Detective: Her story would be recognized? How do you mean?

Russell Williams: Well, ‘cause she knew I was taking pictures.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: So, because of the, um, 2, um, stories in Tweed that would have been a fairly…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: Been quite obvious.

Detective: So, if you didn’t take pictures what would you have done with her?

Russell Williams: I don’t know.

Detective: I mean, she’s at your house, right? Um, well, let me ask you this, us it uh, 2 lived right and 2 died, what’s the difference in your mind between…

Russell Williams: Well, the um, yeah. Would be attention the first 2 got. Um, wasn’t very much focused on obviously, or for obvious reasons, uh, the pictures I took so anybody else telling stories about pictures, right, would have been [sniff] a fairly straight line.

Detective: Okay, but when, when this would happen with Marie-France, was, was, did you, uh, believe that you already a suspect for what happened in Tweed?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: So why, what were you concerned about?

Russell Williams: Well, because um, I was pretty sure that, uh, you know, that she was serving military, right?

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: It would have been, uh, it would have been difficult for investigators to ignore that connection.

Detective: Okay, yeah. Makes sense, um, lets go back to Jessica then. Okay, um, see her on the Wednesday night, right? on her treadmill.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: How do you see her?

Russell Williams: She was in the basement window wide open, on a treadmill, as I drove by.

Detective: Okay. Do you go, did you stop to look at the house or how, how does that catch your eye as you drive by?

Russell Williams: Um, I was looking to see who was, who was where, don’t know that area very well so I was keeping my eyes open.

Detective: Okay, so you spot her on Wednesday?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, do you just keep on going or did you stop and take a closer look that night or anything?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: That night or anything?

Russell Williams: No, I kept going.

Detective: Okay, and you went back on Thursday night, right?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: So back on the Thursday night, and you went, you went into the house before she came home?

Russell Williams: [cough] Yeah, she was out, yeah. Uh, don’t need those. tm, yeah, she was out, got in through the kitchen window. It was unlocked. Everything else was locked.

Detective: Okay, so you’re in there doing what?

Russell Williams: Looking around, looking around to see who lived in the house, it was just her.

Detective: Okay, and then what do you do?

Russell Williams: Well, I left the house and uh, and then she came home, hadn’t been in the house very long. So, I watched for a little bit to see if she as alone. She was. And I went in when she went back to sleep, went to, went to sleep.

Detective: Okay, so you go in, she’s sleeping and what do you do?

Russell Williams: [sighs] well, I, I snuck up to the side of her bed, expecting to uh, try to knock her out. She woke up but she did as I said. I didn’t hit her.

Detective: What did you say?

Russell Williams: I said lie down on your tummy.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: She did and I tied her up.

Detective: What did you tie her up with?

Russell Williams: Some, uh, rope that I brought.

Detective: So she’s on her stomach, how are you tying her up?

Russell Williams: Just tying her, her hands behind her back.

Detective: Okay, she got clothes on at that point?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: What kind of clothes?

Russell Williams: Sweats.

Detective: Alright, tie her hands behind her back and then, then what happens?

Russell Williams: I went and took her clothes off. [sigh]

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: And then what happened?

Russell Williams: I raped her.

Detective: Now rape can mean a lot of different things. What kind of sexual act took place?

Russell Williams: Just, uh, vaginal and oral.

Detective: Okay. Oral, who was preforming the oral sex?

Russell Williams: Uh, me on her and her on me.

Detective: Okay. Any condoms used or anything like that?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: No. So correct me if I’m wrong, vaginal intercourse, her preforming oral sex on you and you preforming oral sex on her?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Do you remember what order those occurred in?

Russell Williams: Yeah. I, um, started with the oral sex, then I raped her. Then later on I made her preform oral sex on me.

Detective: Okay. Anything, any kind of conversation happening when this is going on?

Russell Williams: Yeah, a little bit.

Detective: What was being said?

Russell Williams: Well, I threatened her before she, before I had her perform oral sex.

Detective: What did you say?

Russell Williams: Well, I put a, um, zip tie around her neck and said, uh, that I would pull it if I didn’t like what she was doing.

Detective: Okay. So, she did what you told her to do?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Any issues there? Any reason to pull it?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: So, do you remember if you ejaculated at that point? Or at any point.

Russell Williams: Uh, not at that point but later on.

Detective: Okay, so the oral sex finishes. Then what happens next?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] Well, I continued, um, to rape her and I had her put on some of her underwear. Took some pictures. Lots of pictures. And then uh, got her dressed. Walked back to the truck.

Detective: Okay, at what point did you decide that she was going to leave with you?

Russell Williams:  I’m not sure. That wasn’t uh, necessarily always the plan but at some point uh, I was there for [sigh] be 3, 3 hours, 3 and a bit.

Detective: Okay, um, do you remember the conversation about leaving? Was there any? Did she say anything about that or what was she saying…?

Russell Williams: Well.

Detective: …to you?

Russell Williams: She was um, certainly cooperative.

Detective: Okay, and cooperative can mean a number of different things. Was she excited about leaving with you, and I don’t want to be sarcastic but um…

Russell Williams: No, no. She just didn’t put up too much of a fuss.

Detective: Did she try and negotiate with you at all or…

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: What did she say?

[edited]

Russell Williams: Well, I told her that I would let her go later on.

Detective: Okay, so when you take her out of your house is she is still bound or…

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: How, how is that done?

Russell Williams: Just, uh, hands behind her back.

Detective: Okay, what about her feet? Anything there?

Russell Williams: No, she was walking freely.

Detective: Okay, barefoot or…

Russell Williams: No, no. She had those brown suede shoes on that had been reported.

Detective: Okay, so where does she sit in your truck when you get to your truck?

Russell Williams: Front seat, passenger side.

Detective: Okay and where do you go?

Russell Williams: Straight to Tweed.

Detective: Straight to your house in Tweed or straight…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …to just the town.

Russell Williams: Straight to the house.

Detective: No stops anywhere?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, what time, do you remember what time you arrive there?

Russell Williams: I don’t exactly but I’d say between four thirty and five thirty.

Detective: Okay, alright. And you where, uh, when you were first there before she came home, do you remember did anybody come to the door at all when you were in the house?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Now I think somebody had come home, somebody had come to the house just before she did ‘cause I thought it was her but then they left. I was outside at the time.

Detective: Did you see who that person was or what kind of vehicle they were…

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: …in or anything.

Russell Williams: No, saw the lights and I seen it was her and then all of a sudden they left so I don’t know what happened.

Detective: Okay, um, where were you when that first vehicle pulled up?

Russell Williams: In the back, backyard.

Detective: Okay, so you didn’t have a view of the vehicle, you could just tell that there was a vehicle there.

Russell Williams: I just saw lights.

Detective: …is that fair?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, so you get home about four thirty, five, you said.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, and then what happens?

Russell Williams: Uh, well, she, uh, she had to go to the bathroom and uh, had a quick shower. Washed her and then we went into my bedroom and went to sleep a little bit. She was tied up.

Detective: How was she tied up at that point?

Russell Williams: Just hands behind her back. I had put um, tape over her eyes from the beginning so that’s what she had.

Detective: Okay, when they find her is that tape going to be there or is it ever removed?

Russell Williams: No, I removed it.

Detective: Okay, what kind of tape?

Russell Williams: Duct tape.

Detective: Alright, the duct tape that you used, where is uh, where’s that roll?

Russell Williams: Uh, it’s all done. It, uh, I used it to, I used the rest of it to, uh, bind her, bind her body.

Detective: So, by all gone is it, is it, with the body now?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, so you said who went to sleep when you came home, you had a, or she had a shower?

Russell Williams: Well, we both went in. I washed her off after she’d been to the bathroom. We both went to sleep but she was tied up and I tied the rope, you know, so I could fall asleep a little bit and she could move without waking me up.

Detective: I’m trying to picture how that would be. So, the rope’s tied to what on her?

Russell Williams: It’s tied in her hands.

Detective: Behind…

Russell Williams: Behind her back.

Detective: Okay and…

Russell Williams: And then the rope just wrapped around me a couple times so there was no slack.

Detective: Okay, do you remember how long you slept for?

Russell Williams: Not long, maybe a couple hours.

Detective: Do you know if she slept?

Russell Williams: I don’t know.

Detective: Okay, so you wake up and…

Russell Williams: It wasn’t, I mean, we were up and down, up and down, so it wasn’t 2 hours straight. It was 2 hours in bed but there wasn’t much sleep. Just lying there probably.

Detective: So, you waited or you get up from that and what happens.

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] Um, she had a seizure actually. She felt it coming on and um, cause she’d had some before, lasted, uh, well quite a while. Got her dressed into the, uh, family room and anyway she um, she recovered. She got, uh, you know, was obviously stress but uh, you know, probably, probably went on for about 15 minutes, part of it.

Detective: So…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: How do you know she had them before?

Russell Williams: She told me. [sighs]

Detective: Did she tell you why she gets them?

Russell Williams: Well, she suggested it was stress, yeah, so she felt herself…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: … you know, start to tense up and said she thought she was going to have a seizure. Yeah, so, she was [tapping] she was, it’s you know, convulsions is what she was having.

Detective: Okay so she’s recovered from that.

Russell Williams: Yep, she um, like I stayed with her and talked her through it and made sure she didn’t bite her tongue.

Detective: Okay and then what happened?

Russell Williams: [inhales deeply]  Oh, then we had a little lie down right there because she was obviously exhausted. Put a cover over her and went to sleep, probably for an hour or so.

[silence]

Russell Williams: [sigh] and I told her um, earlier that before I let her go I wanted to take some pictures of her in her underwear and uh, have sex with her so after she’d had uh, a rest for an hour or so I had her uh, put on a number of different outfits she had. [deeply inhales]

Detective: I’m sorry.

Russell Williams: Put on a, a number of, you know, pairs of panties, bras, that she had that I’d taken.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: From the house. So, she put those on and I took pictures.

Detective: Okay, are you in any of these pictures?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Mm. What kind of images, what kind of images are you in?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Um, well, I’m with her, there’s on the hard drives. You’ll see, there’s video as well so there was a video of the, um, you know, almost 4 hours, I guess.

Detective: Of what?

Russell Williams: Well, of, uh, initially at her place of uh, me raping her [sign] and then, uh, yeah, I was running the video and then taking still pictures, so the video pretty much covers everything.

Detective: Did you use video at other places?

Russell Williams: Uh, at, uh, Marie-France’s as well.

Detective: And uh, is that video on the hard drives?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Same type of, uh, activity?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Well, I didn’t have her put on any stuff.

Detective: Okay, so Jessica poses for these pictures and there’s videos and um, and then what happens?

Russell Williams: Then um, I got her dressed. She thought she was leaving. Had a bite to eat, fruit, and then as we were walking out, uh, I struck her on the back of the head.

Detective: Okay, when did you decide to do that?

Russell Williams: Well, I was, uh, pretty sure that I wasn’t going to let her leave but um, you know the idea of striking her on the head was developed in the afternoon.

Detective: And what was the strike supposed to accomplish, in your mind? What was the intent of doing that?

Russell Williams: Well, I thought I would be able to knock her out and then I was, I was going to strangle her.

Detective: Okay, so when you actually do strike her, what, what’s the result?

Russell Williams: Her skull gave way a little bit, felt like. And there was a lot of blood so I think that’s what happened, she was immediately unconscious. And then I, um, strangled her.

Detective: How did you strangle her?

Russell Williams: Uh, the same rope. Just put it around her neck…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …while she was unconscious.

Detective: And what happened to the zip tie that was around her neck earlier?

Russell Williams: I took it off, uh, around then I guess.

Detective: Did you take it off before you put the rope around her neck or, or after or do you remember?

Russell Williams: [inhales deeply] After she was dead. [sigh]

Detective: Oh, okay, so the zip tie was around her neck while you used the rope?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, did you leave the rope around her neck?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, and how did you know she was dead?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] She, um, well her body stopped moving.

Detective: Okay, so what did you do after that?

Russell Williams: I, uh, I bound her up into a, it was fetal position. And uh, cleaned up the floor.

Detective: Now, when you say you bound her up, is that you referring to the duct tape that you talked about earlier?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, so then what did you do?

Russell Williams: I um, put her in the garage. It was very cold, and then I went in to the Base.

Detective: Okay, why did you go to the Base?

Russell Williams: Pardon me?

Detective: Why did you go to the Base?

Russell Williams: Because I was flying early the next morning.

Detective: Okay, so what time did you leave to go to the Base?

Russell Williams: When I told you, about between 9 or 10 or so.

Detective: On Friday night?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, so you fly and…

Russell Williams: [sigh] Then I drove home to Ottawa.

Detective: So which night would you…

Russell Williams: Saturday night.

Detective: So, you land uh, and uh, what time are you landing?

Russell Williams: Six, six thirty.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Saturday night.

Detective: Did you go by the house in Tweed on your way no Ottawa or?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Um, so you drove straight home to Ottawa. What time did you get there at, do you remember?

Russell Williams: Sometime before midnight and I can’t quite remember but uh, I think I went in the office first, did some work, so I think I got home to Ottawa, uh, just before midnight. Something like that, I think. I’m not sure. I, I, slept for a little bit in, at the Tim Hortons in Brockville so it might be later. I honestly can’t remember when I got to Ottawa but…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Yeah, midnight – ish Saturday.

Detective: Mm-hm.

[silence]

Detective: So, you get home here in Ottawa. What do you do? Do you go to bed or…?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … stay up? So, then what do you do the next day?

Russell Williams: Well, my wife and I did some stuff. I can’t remember what, uh, what was going on that day. You know, putting together the new house and I headed back to Tweed that night.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: Is that right? Sorry. Uh, no. I didn’t. I had, uh, I had Monday off. That’s right. I had Monday off and then I was visiting, uh, one of the units in Ottawa on Tuesday so I didn’t head back to Tweed until Tuesday night.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: [clears throat]

Detective: So you get back to Tweed and what happens next?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] I, uh, I took Jessica’s body to that spot.

Detective: Okay, that happened Tuesday night, just this past Tuesday, obviously.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, do you remember what time it was?

Russell Williams: It was pretty late. It was, um, midnight – ish I’d say. Between midnight and one on uh, Wednesday morning.

Detective: Okay, um, what made you decide to measure that distance, that point, 7 kilometers?

Russell Williams: That’s just the way I am. Numbers, I have to know the numbers.

Detective: Okay, and um, how did you leave her?

Russell Williams: I just left her tucked behind a, uh, a fairly large rock.

Detective: Is that duct tape still on her?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, and what else is on her?

Russell Williams: Couple towels wrapped around her head and uh, the top and pants she was wearing. Jeans.

Detective: Okay. Did you ever go back there?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Alright. Um, what other type of cleaning things like that, did you do anything else to kind of cover your tracks that you can think of?

Russell Williams: I vacuumed the house and I, uh, wiped the, the floor, washed the floor.

Detective: Okay, what about your truck, do you do anything with that?

Russell Williams: Just, uh, washed it uh, ‘cause it was a mess and vacuum.

Detective: Okay, um, so Marie-France, when did, uh, when did it first occur to you to go to her house?

Russell Williams: Uh, [sigh] well, probably October, October, November, not quite sure but somewhere in that time period.

Detective: And do you remember why you, that you thought to, um, do that?

Russell Williams: Uh, well, you know, she had said she lived alone on the one time I met her.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

[silence]

Russell Williams: Yeah. [deeply inhales]

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: [sighs]

Detective: Um, I’m just trying to understand like, why her versus you know, the dozens of other women you’ve probably come across.

Russell Williams: I don’t know, you know, I, you know, I went out there when she wasn’t home just to see where she lived and…

Detective: When did you do that?

Russell Williams: Couple nights before.

Detective: And how did you know her address?

Russell Williams: Well, I just headed down the road from the Base here.

Detective: Okay, so when you go out there a couple nights before, do you remember what night that was when you were there the first time?

Russell Williams: I don’t, uh, but I, it’s, it was within 2 or 3 nights, I think.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Oh well, no more than 4 anyway. Something like that.

Detective: And did you actually go into her house on that occasion or did you just uh…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay so what happened that night? How did you, how did you get into her house?

Russell Williams: This window on the side of the basement, side window.

Detective: Okay, and just to back us up a bit, uh, how did you get to her house that, that first night you went there?

Russell Williams: I drove.

Detective: What did you drive?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Uh, I think I drove my truck.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Pathfinder.

Detective: And do you remember where you parked it?

Russell Williams: Yeah, I parked at, um, the, the division in the residential areas there. I parked it on the other side, yeah six, seven hundred metres away.

Detective: Okay, so not on her street?

Russell Williams: On a different street. Do you remember what street you parked on? No, but it’s actually might be the same street but there’s…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: … an interruption in the street where there’s a construction zone so there’s a pathway inbetween so uh, I think it’s probably the same street.

Detective: Okay, so you, uh, you go to her house and when you went there that night did you know she was away?

Russell Williams:  Uh, I’m not sure if I knew entirely but I, I think I thought she was away.

Detective: Okay, is that based on her schedule or, or how it, how would you know that?

Russell Williams: Uh, well yeah, ‘cause I fly with the squadron, I have access to the schedule and…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …it’s, it’s slightly different schedule she has but that’s probably how I knew.

Detective: You don’t know for sure?

Russell Williams:  I think that’s probably how I knew.

Detective: Okay, so you go to her house…

Russell Williams:  Mm-hm.

Detective: …and what do you do that night, the first night?

Russell Williams: Well, I looked around and um, I made sure that she was living there alone.

Detective: … And I’m sorry did, did you say, I can’t remember if you said how, how did you get in?

Russell Williams: Same, same way through the bottom side basement window.

Detective: Side basement window. Do you remember what kind of window it is, like what made it, uh…

Russell Williams: Well, I just noticed that it was well, I noticed with the flashlight, I could see that it was not locked. It had been open slightly so I removed the screen, slid it open, went in.

Detective: Okay, so you go in and uh, you’re in her house figuring out she lives alone and, and, uh, do you do anything that night?

Russell Williams: Yeah, I was playing with her, uh, underwear.

Detective: What do you mean playing with her underwear?

Russell Williams: Well, wearing it.

Detective: Okay, is there anything else?

Russell Williams: Well, I didn’t, I didn’t touch her stuff.

Detective: What do you mean you didn’t touch her stuff? I mean, you touched…

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales]

Detective: …her underwear [inaudible]

Russell Williams: Well, yeah.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: But nothing else.

Detective: Okay, did you take any of the underwear with you that night?

Russell Williams: Yeah, a few pieces.

Detective: And where did you find the underwear when you went in?

Russell Williams: In her drawer.

Detective: Was it clean, was it used or?

Russell Williams: Clean.

Detective: Yeah, um, anything else you can remember doing that evening that you..,?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Alright, so, um, after that first visit did you return again before meeting up with her?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, so which day did you go to her house when she was there?

Russell Williams: Well the night before I went to Ottawa so, I think that was Monday night.

Detective: Alright, um, so let’s walk through that, uh, what time do you think you got there?

Russell Williams: About eleven or so, probably ten thirty, eleven.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Yeah, so she was on the phone in her room. I could hear that, uh, from the back yard. I got in through the uh, side window.

Detective: The same basement window?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: How could you hear her from the backyard, what was uh…

Russell Williams: I could see her on the phone from beside, uh, beside the house. I could hear her through the walls that she was on the phone.

Detective: Okay, any idea who she was talking to or what she was talking about?

Russell Williams: No, I couldn’t hear that well.

Detective: Okay, so you go in through the basement window and what are you wearing when this is happening?

Russell Williams: Um, a sweatshirt and Dockers, I guess and the, um, 2 pieces on my head.

Detective: Okay and where are those 2 pieces now, the pieces that you wore on the head?

Russell Williams: Uh, they’re probably in my bag in, um, my luggage bag, and it’s in the bedroom.

Detective: What does your luggage bag look like?

Russell Williams: It’s, um, blue duffle bag type thing. It’s right beside the bed.

Detective: Okay. There the only blue duffle bag in your bedroom?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, and these pieces, what do they look like again?

Russell Williams: It’s a blue headband.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Standard blue, you know, winter head band and uh, black skull cap type thing.

Detective: Okay, any insignias or anything on them?

Russell Williams: Yeah, there are but I don’t know what they are.

Detective: Do you know what…

Russell Williams: The blue headband has something, uh, you know, stitched. Uh, uh, name of some sort stitched on it and the, uh, skull cap has some sort of emblem on it. White emblem on the black. I don’t know what it is.

Detective: Are they like, sports emblems or company emblems or…

Russell Williams: Uh, it’s the manufacturer’s…

Detective: Okay, anything else in that blue, uh, duffle bag?

Russell Williams: I think so.

Detective: Is it full of things other than…

Russell Williams: Just, just my clothes.

Detective: Okay, um, you go in, uh, do you remember what you had on your feet?

Russell Williams: In the house there?

Detective: When you went to Marie-France’s house.

Russell Williams: No, I don’t. Probably running shoes. There wasn’t snow on the ground.

Detective: Okay, so you go in and you’re in the basement and uh, whereabouts in the basement are you?

Russell Williams: Um, by the furnace.

Detective: Okay, and what are you doing? What, what, uh, what’s your, sort of, plan at that point?

Russell Williams: I was waiting for her to go to bed.

Detective: Okay, and how long did that take?

Russell Williams: Well, she didn’t.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So then she came down looking for the cat.

Detective: Alright, and uh, what happens next?

Russell Williams: Well, as I described, I subdued her, hit her with the flashlight, got, essentially wrestled her to the ground, and tied her up.

Detective: Okay, and what did you use to tie her up?

Russell Williams: Same rope. Green rope. It’s in Tweed.

Detective: It is just green or like, uh, how long is this piece of rope?

Russell Williams: Mm… It’s probably, um, 20 feet. It’s a boat, boat rope. It’s got some red specs in it, I think.

Detective: Okay, is there lots of ropes in Tweed or is this probably the only rope.

Russell Williams: No, this, uh, there are 2, 2 lengths.

Detective: 2 lengths of the same green rope?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And were they both used?

Russell Williams: Uh, well, I, I only ever had one with me so I don’t know if I used the same piece both times or not but only 2 lengths of rope.

Detective: Okay, so you tie her, tie her up. How did you tie her up after you subdue her?

Russell Williams: Hands behind her back.

Detective: Okay, and what is she wearing at that point?

Russell Williams: She wasn’t wearing anything to start with.

Detective: So, when she came down to the basement she had no clothes on?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm, she had some sort of shawl over her shoulder…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …which she immediately dropped when she saw me.

Detective: Did she say anything when she saw you?

Russell Williams: She did, she called out “you bastard”.

Detective: Okay, and then what happened?

Russell Williams: Then I subdued her, as I described.

Detective: By hitting her with that red flashlight?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Oh, they were more glancing, glancing blows. Cut her skin but weren’t doing much else.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: She fell over and then I subdued her when she tripped.

Detective: Okay, how did you tie her at that point. Like, I know you used the rope but what were, what did you tie her up, up, like?

Russell Williams: Just told her to put her, well, I pulled her hand behind her back and just tied her wrists together.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: Then, then what happened after that?

Russell Williams: Then I took her upstairs.

Detective: Did she go upstairs under her own power or did you carry her?

Russell Williams: No, she passed out, um, on the stairs and then I carried her up.

Detective: Why do you think she passed out?

Russell Williams: I expect, uh, from the hits to her head.

Detective: So, you carried her up to where?

Russell Williams: To her bedroom, put her on the bed.

Detective: Okay, and then what happened?

Russell Williams: Uh, well as I described I think, I, uh, pushed her on the bed. I raped her over a period of time.

Detective: Okay. In the interest of being specific, what sex acts took place?

Russell Williams: Just vaginal.

Detective: Your penis in her vagina?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Any condom used?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Did you ejaculate?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Did you ejaculate at any point with her?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay. Um, just before I forget, I think I asked you, don’t mean to bounce around here, Russ, with Jessica, I asked you about ejaculation. You said you didn’t at that point. When did you ejaculate with Jessica?

Russell Williams: Um, the second time or third time that I had her, um, perform oral sex.

Detective: And was that at her residence or yours?

Russell Williams: Hers.

Detective: Okay. Any other times you ejaculated with her?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay. Um, when you ejaculated with Jessica did you use anything to clean up or?

Russell Williams. No.

Detective: What happened to the ejaculate?

Russell Williams: She swallowed it.

Detective: Um, okay, so getting back to Marie-France, it’s just straight vaginal sex, no condom, no ejaculation. Is that right?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Okay, um, how long does that go for, like how long were you engaged in that activity?

Russell Williams: [sigh] uh, [sigh] couple, well, hour and a half, two hours, I guess.

Detective: Okay and then what happens next?

Russell Williams: Well, as I described I suffocated her using, um, duct tape.

Detective: Why did you decide to do that?

Russell Williams: Well, again, because of the pictures kind of, as I described to you it would’ve, um, it was going to be a pretty straight line back to Tweed.

Detective: Okay, but why, why, why did you decide to use that method versus something else?

Russell Williams: Just, I had, uh, thought about strangling her earlier. It’s on the video.

Detective: What is?

Russell Williams: My, uh, well, it was a short-lived attempt because she struggled quite a bit and I decided that I needed to suffocate her.

Detective: So, uh, it was a short lived attempt to strangle her and what’s on the video? The suffocation or the strangling?

Russell Williams: Well, just me putting my hand around her throat and then her uh, responding, you know, no surprise, very aggressively.

Detective: Okay. Any videos of the, uh, suffocation part or pictures of that?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Um, now, you, you mentioned that you brought the rope with you. Where did the duct tape come from?

Russell Williams: I brought it.

Detective: Okay, and what did you do with it afterwards?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] I think it uh [sigh] that it stayed in Tweed.

Detective: What color of duct tape are we talking about? I know it comes in a variety of colors but…

Russell Williams: Grey.

Detective: Grey. Um, so before, uh, the suffocation, uh, obviously, how, how long do you think you were with her from the point, well, how long do you think you were in that house from the point you went in that window to the point you left?

Russell Williams: Probably, um, 4 hours.

Detective: Okay, so correct me if I’m wrong, did you say you would’ve gotten there at 11 or around 11?

Russell Williams: I think that’s right.

Detective: Okay so like, you left around 3 in the morning?

Russell Williams: Well, I was in the basement for quite a while before she came down, like she wasn’t going to bed so I was probably in the basement for 30, 40 minutes.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, by the time she saw me it was probably closer to midnight…

Detective: Alright, um…

Russell Williams: …but I didn’t have a watch on so I’m not sure.

Detective: …any gloves?

Russell Williams: [sigh] I don’t think so.

Detective: Did you wear gloves with Jessica?

Russell Williams: Uh, only to get in the house. It was a very cold night.

Detective: Well, what about the 2 women in, uh, in Tweed?

Russell Williams: No gloves.

Detective: Okay, so while you’re with Marie-France, what kind of conversations are taking place, you anything in she said to stick out in your mind?

Russell Williams: No, no. I taped her mouth. There’s no conversation.

Detective: Okay, when did you tape her mouth?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Soon as I got her up to the bedroom.

Detective: Why did you decide to do that?

Russell Williams: Because she was, uh, you know, quite aggressive.

Detective: In what way?

Russell Williams: I was confident she was, uh, would have screamed given the chance…

Detective: What way was…

Russell Williams: … because she did initially.

Detective: Did she?

Russell Williams: In the basement.

Detective:  So, in what way was she aggressive?

Russell Williams: Oh, just in, you know, when she discovered me she was very vocal, screamed quite a bit until I subdued her so I expected she would scream again given the chance.

Detective: Okay, do you remember how you left her residence?

Russell Williams: Back door, patio door.

Detective: Okay, did you take anything with you that night?

Russell Williams: Some of her underwear.

Detective: Anything else?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Alright, um, did you do anything else to try and uh, cover your tracks with Marie-France?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhale] um, well, I had turned off my Blackberry before I left Trenton. Other than that, no.

Detective: Do you remember trying to destroy any kind of evidence there the, or anything you thought may have uh, produced evidence or anything?

Russell Williams: Oh, I took her sheets off the bed and ran them through the laundry.

Detective: Like the laundry, where at?

Russell Williams: In her house.

Detective: Okay, did you run them completely through? Did you wait for it to finish or…?

Russell Williams: No, I just put them in and put a whole bunch of bleach in and let it go.

Detective: Okay, so the night you went to her house and got there at 11, you came from where, like you said, you left Trenton.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: You turned off your Blackberry. You did, you talking about the Base or you talking about, uh, where did you leave to go to her house?

Russell Williams: Well, no, I just turned off my Blackberry before I left the Trenton area. [sigh] Um, I would’ve left from the Base after work.

Detective: Alright, when did you turn your, when did you, uh, what time do you think you turned your Blackberry off?

Russell Williams: Well, it’s only a half hour drive to Brighton so you know, probably in the nine, nine thirty range.

Detective: Do you remember what, uh, what time you would’ve turned it back on?

Russell Williams: When I was back on the 401 heading to Ottawa the next morning.

Detective: What time would that have been?

Russell Williams: So, six, plus or minus 30 minutes.

Detective: Okay, so you leave her house three-ish.

Russell Williams: No, I, I think it was later that, that so 4 hours obviously it was… I think, uh, yeah, I think I went in about 11, was in the basement for quite a while. Probably left her house closer to four, four thirty, something like that.

Detective: Okay, and where do you go?

Russell Williams: Uh, I drove to Ottawa.

Detective: Straight to Ottawa?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Did you go by your house in Tweed or anything or do you just go straight home?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Do you remember what route you took?

Russell Williams: Uh, yeah. 401, uh, from her place. Uh, I think I went straight north on, uh, whatever the road is that goes straight through Brighton up to the 401, hit the 401 and headed East.

Detective: Okay, and so you’re going to what’s the meeting, you’re having that day in Ottawa. Remind me.

Russell Williams: It’s a meeting on, uh, the C17 acquisition project.

Detective: Okay, and who ran that meeting?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] The project manager, Miss Sue Hale.

Detective: Okay, is that the only meeting around that time period you would’ve went to on that issue with Sue Hale?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: There wasn’t like a weekly meeting or anything like that?

Russell Williams: No, this is sort of a quarterly.

Detective: Alright. Um, so, the night you went, the night this happened, uh, where did you park, uh, that night?

Russell Williams: As I said, across the gravel little roadway probably and it’s probably the same road…

Detective: Okay, same, uh, location to the first night?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Alright. Same, same vehicle?

Russell Williams: Yeah, truck.

Detective: Yeah, alright, um, okay. Let’s talk about uh, the, oh, seeing how’s, we’re going backwards in time here, why don’t we talk about the second incident in Tweed. Um, with, uh, Laurie Massicotte. The that that’s uh, at 76 Cozy Cove. How did you, uh, decide on her?

Russell Williams: I knew she lived alone. That’s it.

Detective: And how did you know that?

Russell Williams: Well, she lives 3 doors down and uh, didn’t know her but I knew she is pretty alone. She had boyfriend and hadn’t seemed to be, hadn’t been around so [sigh] you know, um, looked in the window and she was alone.

Detective: So, she, she had a boyfriend but he wasn’t…

Russell Williams: He wasn’t there.

Detective: …too frequently, okay.

Russell Williams: Well, he wasn’t, uh, she told me that they were fighting so that’s why he hadn’t been there.

Detective: Okay, so um, did you look in her house before the night that this, this incident happened or when did you do that?

Russell Williams: Yeah, I’d been in, uh, within the week, probably a couple nights earlier.

Detective: What did you do that night?

Russell Williams: I, um, I looked around to see if there were any permanent signs of her boyfriend, I guess. Took, uh, 1 or 2 pieces of her underwear, that’s all.

Detective: Okay, so the night you go there…

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: Uh, when the incident happens, uh, do you remember what time it was?

Russell Williams: It was pretty late. Um, I probably got into the house around midnight. She was asleep on the couch though. I didn’t know that, but I knew she was in there.

Detective: And how did you get in? Sorry.

Russell Williams: Uh, window in the back of the house. There’s a little sunroom.

Detective: Was it just something you had to slid or, or how did you..?

Russell Williams: I had to remove the screen and uh, and slide it up.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: [sigh] So I got into the house and uh, she was asleep in front of the TV.

Detective: Wearing anything on your face that night?

Russell Williams: Yeah, same things.

Detective: Okay, the headband and the uh, the cap.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, um, what kind of clothes did you have on?

Russell Williams: Just dark sweatshirt or pants.

Detective: Alright, so she’s asleep on the couch. You’re in there and then what happens?

Russell Williams: [laugh] We have been through this, eh.

Detective: I know.

Russell Williams: I struck her with the, uh, flashlight thinking it would knock her out. It didn’t. We struggled. I subdued her, took some pictures, left. Was probably in the house about two, two and a half hours.

Detective: That’s a pretty short description for two and a half hours.

Russell Williams: Well, we talked. I, uh, I told her I wasn’t going to hurt her. I, uh, told her that there were other guys in the house robbing her. My job was just to control her. [sigh]

Detective: What did she say to that?

Russell Williams: She was scared and was worried she was going to be seriously hurt.

Detective: Did she say that or did you…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … just assume that?

Russell Williams: No, no. She said that she was, she was worried she was going to be killed. I said I’m not going to kill you.

Detective: What did you do with, uh, you said you took pictures of her, um, clothed, unclothed?

Russell Williams: Uh, both. Clothed initially and then unclothed.

Detective: Okay, are you in any of those pictures?

Russell Williams: Don’t think so.

Detective: You just took them of her. What kind of camera are you using by the way? It’s a….

Russell Williams: It’s a digital, uh, Sony.

Detective: Do you just have the one camera?

Russell Williams: Yeah, and the video camera.

Detective: Oh, so they’re 2 separate…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …cause some cameras take video, right?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, and where is the camera and the, and the video camera?

Russell Williams: It’s in Tweed.

Detective: Is it the only camera and video camera in that house?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, alright, um, so you take pictures of her and how do you end up leaving? Do you, uh…

Russell Williams: Oh, I just told her to, um, I don’t know, count or wait for, uh, a number of minutes before, uh, before she called the police.

Detective: Okay, and did you leave immediately, or did you stay there for a while…

Russell Williams: Well, uh…

Detective: …see what she was going to do or?

Russell Williams: I left.

Detective: Um, and where do you go?

Russell Williams: Home.

Detective: Straight home?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, did you, did you wait to see if police showed up or anything or…

Russell Williams: No, no, it’s uh, you know… [deeply inhales]

Detective: So what did you do when you got home?

Russell Williams: … couple hundred feet. Uh, I went to sleep.

Detective: Okay, and what did you do the next day?

Russell Williams: Went to work, normal time.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Couple hours later.

Detective: Alright, um, do you remember how, uh, her clothing was removed?

Russell Williams: [sigh] uh, well, cause her hands were tied behind her back I think I cut off her top and then pulled off her bottom.

Detective: What did you use to cut her top?

Russell Williams: Um, I can’t remember if it was a knife or like a folding Exacto knife or Leatherman or one of the two.

Detective: Are these items that are in your house in Tweed?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, is there every any other time you used a, a, a knife to cut off clothing or anything else? Do you remember?

Russell Williams: Uh, I cut off Jessica’s top with a knife ‘cause her hands were tied behind her back. That’s all.

Detective: Okay, where’s that knife, which knife did…

Russell Williams: Same.

Detective: …you use?

Russell Williams: That was the Leatherman.

Detective: That was the Leatherman.

Russell Williams: Tweed.

Detective: Okay, is it the only Leatherman in, in Tweed?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, um, so on the 16th of September, uh, [edited] when you went that night, was that the first time you’d been in her house?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Okay, and why her?

Russell Williams: Just ‘cause I’d seen her and she was cute. That’s it.

Detective: Okay, so there was no, um, you didn’t go into her house before that?

Russel Williams: [deeply inhale]

Detective: …that night.

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Alright, um, so you go in and how did you get into her house?

Russell Williams: Side window, the, uh, was not locked. Cut the screen, slid the window, crawled in.

Detective: Okay, and uh, what are you wearing?

Russell Williams: Same. Sweatshirt, dark pants.

Detective: And the same hat and…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, uh, and where do you find, uh, [edited]?

Russell Williams: In bed, asleep.

Detective: Okay, and what do you do?

Russell Williams: [Deeply inhales] Stood over her for a while and then I, uh, hit her on the left side of her head, just with my hand. Just woke her up. We struggled then I just lay on her. And uh, very much like I described a little but ago. Took off her, pulled her top down and took off her pants. Took some pictures and left.

Detective: Do you remember her saying anything to you?

Russell Williams: Yes.

Detective: What does she say to you?

Russell Williams: Well, all kinds of things. Um, you know, she had a, a young baby just uh, next door. The other room, 8 months or so. So obviously concerned about the baby. Concerned for herself. I assured her I was not going to hurt her. Physically, anyway. [deeply inhale]

Detective: Okay, um, any underwear taken from [edited]

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Or Laurie?

Russell Williams: Yeah, both.

Detective: And where would they be located?

Russell Williams: In Tweed.

Detective: And why are they in Tweed as opposed to uh, um, Marie-France and Jessica’s underwear.

Russell Williams: I don’t know.

Detective: Do you remember how much of their underwear you took?

Russell Williams: Um [sigh] not very much from Laurie. [edited]

Detective: Okay, do they know that you took their underwear?

Russell Williams: I don’t know.

Detective: You didn’t discuss it with them or anything. Um, so where in Tweed would their underwear be?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Um, in the, uh, laundry room area…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …just between the house and the garage.

Detective: Right.

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: Where in the laundry room area would they be kept?

Russell Williams: There’s a cupboard, uh, up top. They’re in a duffle bag.

Detective: What does the duffle bag look like?

Russell Williams: It’s a green Army duffle bag.

Detective: Okay, are they all in the same duffle bag? Is there anything else in the duffle bag?

Russell Williams: [sigh] just underwear.

Detective: Okay, um, when these, when these pictures uh, are looked at, um, you talked about being in Marie-France’s underwear on the first night, you went in. Did you take photographs of that?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: What about anybody else’s underwear?

Russell Williams: Yeah, photos.

Detective: Of you in their underwear?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And where were those photos taken?

Russell Williams: Um, well, sometimes in as in, in Marie-France’s case, in her house [sigh]. The others in my house.

Detective: In Tweed.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: So, was this the matter, you take and later go back and, and then at some point looking around and take pictures…What about Jessica’s underwear?

Russell Williams: Uh, she’s only her, really.

Detective: So, you don’t have pictures of you in her underwear?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, alright. Um, okay, well, I guess, uh, I just have a couple of questions for you, I mean, I’m sure there’s going to be more questions but I guess what’s on my mind right now, uh, Russ, is um, what made you decide to tell me this tonight?

Russell Williams: Mostly to make my wife’s life easier.

Detective: Okay. Is what you told me tonight the truth?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, how do you feel about what you’ve done? Like what, uh…

[silence]

Russell Williams: Disappointed.

Detective: Okay. Let me ask you this. If, um, if this didn’t come to the point it’s at right now, if for whatever reason you didn’t end up on our, on our radar so to speak, uh, do you think it would’ve happened again?

Russell Williams: I was hoping not but I can’t answer that question but [edited]

Detective: Okay, um, not too much here, Russ. Just a few details that I wanted to cover off and specifically dealing with Marie-France. Um, in the basement of her house, um, there’s a hole in the, uh, drywall. Do you recall how that happened?

Russell Williams: Whereabouts?

Detective: Uh, I don’t know specifically but it’s downstairs.

Russell Williams: I don’t remember that, no.

Detective: Okay, do you remember doing anything with her in the basement, uh, where you may have used some clothing or something to, uh, secure her?

Russell Williams: Yeah, I tied her up against one of the, uh, poles in the basement initially and I went outside and put the screen back on and secured the window.

Detective: Okay, while she was tied to the pole.

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: And what was your thinking behind doing that at that point?

Russell Williams: Just to cover up how I’d come in.

Detective: Okay, um, now by the time she’s tied to that pole, is that in the very initial few minutes kind of thing, of the confrontation or?

Russell Williams: It was shortly after I’d subdued her and tied her up, yes.

Detective: Okay, does she have duct tape on her mouth yet?

Russell Williams: I think probably.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: The pictures will show it.

Detective: Alright, now in the upstairs bathroom, by her bedroom, there’s uh, looks like something’s occurred in there. Do you remember that?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: What happened there?

Russell Williams: She had passed out on the bed and I had gone to look out the front window to see if anybody was coming and uh, she got up and closed the bedroom door and raced into the bathroom trying to uh, get somebody’s attention but her mouth was taped and her hands were tied.

Detective: Okay. What did you do as a result of that?

Russell Williams: Well, I just got in and subdued her again and got, got her back into the bedroom.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Didn’t do anything, just regained control of her.

Detective: Okay, if I remember correctly there’s a bit, little bit of blood in there. Do you know where that blood would’ve, how that, that would have occurred?

Russell Williams: All the blood was from the initial hits as I was trying to subdue her.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Her skin breaking with the, uh, blows to her head.

Detective: Okay, do you recall blood being in the bathroom?

Russell Williams: No, actually. I didn’t have the light on in there but it doesn’t surprise me.

Detective: Okay. Um, there’s a pair of underwear and some socks on the floor of that bathroom that belong to her. Do you remember how they got there? Remember seeing them?

Russell Williams: I don’t, didn’t see them, no.

Detective: Okay, what do you recall doing to her breasts, it’s pretty clear that there was some, something happened to her breasts. Do you remember what that might have been?

Russell Williams: Mm, no. I, I certainly touched her breasts. I didn’t do anything to hurt them.

Detective: Don’t remember that?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, alright, um, well Russ…

Russell Williams: Now, when I suffocated her, she was on her, her front so it may have been something there but…

Detective: What do you mean?

Russell Williams: Well, she was lying on the floor in the bedroom as I suffocated her and obviously struggled. It may have been in there that something happened, but I didn’t do anything specific to her breasts.

Detective: Okay. So, what do you suffocate her, that’s when you had the duct tape over her mouth and nose?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And that’s on the floor?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: And um, then what happens after that?

Russell Williams: Well, she died and I, um, then took the duct tape off her head and put her on the bed and covered her up with the duvet.

Detective: Okay, and what was your thinking behind doing that?

Russell Williams: I don’t know. Nothing really.

Detective: Okay, alright. Um, as you might expect your arrest, uh, certainly, uh, even now one of the uh, Ottawa investigators mentioned to me that um, there’s a number of incidents that uh, that have done unsolved over the years…[cough]

Russell Williams: Can I, I was going to get into that, can I go to the washroom quickly?

Detective: Yeah, I can get somebody to take you to the washroom. Okay.

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