Case Summary

Aiden Fucci Case Summary

On Sunday May 9th, 2021, Tristyn Bailey was a 13-year-old cheerleader at Patriot Oaks Academy that everyone described as being a wonderful person and a role model to her peers. Tristyn was last seen around the midnight between Saturday and Sunday by her family. After failing to locate her in the morning, Tristyn’s family reported her missing at 10:00 a.m. and police began the search.

Tristyn Bailey

As part of their investigation, local police pulled surveillance footage in her Durbin Crossing neighborhood in St. John, Florida. This footage first showed two teenagers, one assumed to be Tristyn, near the North Amenity Center at 1:15 a.m., around an area of the neighborhood that has a community pool, gym, and playground. At 1:45 a.m., the teenagers were seen walking East down Saddlestone Drive. Less than 2 hours later at 3:27 a.m., only one of the two teenagers were spotted walking down the road holding a pair of shoes.

A 14-year-old boy who lives in the same Durbin Crossing neighborhood and goes to Patriot Oaks Academy was questioned in an attempt to locate Tristyn or identify the teenagers on the video. In the beginning he was cooperative and made admissions during his initial statement. He repeatedly changed his story throughout his interaction with police. When his mother asked why he was carrying his shoes, he simply stated that his feet hurt.

Aiden Fucci Mugshot

Around 6 p.m. a resident of the neighborhood found Tristyn’s body at the South end of a retention pond in the woods behind the houses at the end of the Saddlestone Drive cul-de-sac. After the discovery of her body and the investigation going from a missing person’s case to a murder investigation, Fucci stopped cooperating. While in custody in the back seat of the Deputy’s cruiser, Fucci took a selfie while giving the peace sign and posted it to Snapchat with the caption “Hey guys has inybody seen Tristyn lately”. The police are aware of this social media activity and have submitted it as evidence.

Fucci’s selfie taken from the back of a deputy’s cruiser

Tristyn’s body was found fully clothed. The manner of death was not immediately released, but the State’s Attorney’s Office initially stated that Tristyn was stabbed more than once, with the police expressing that they will not disclose the number of times but would say that it was “horrific”. Significant injury to her head and other trauma was also noted. After review by the medical examiner it was released that Tristyn was stabbed 114 times, with 49 of the injuries being defensive wounds to her arms and hands indicating that she put up an courageous fight. The tip of a blade was found embedded in Tristyn’s scalp.

Armed with evidence gathered during their investigation, local authorities were able to obtain a search warrant for Fucci’s home and surrounding areas. A foldable Buck knife was located in a retention pond behind Fucci’s home by divers. Inside of the residence, police found a bloody shirt and shoes that belong to Fucci. The discovered clothing match the clothing seen on the surveillance video.

Tristyn Bailey

Aiden Fucci was arrested Sunday evening, May 9th, 2021, the same day as the crime was committed. On Monday, Fucci was charged with Second Degree Murder. While the Judge read the charges to Aiden Fucci, he stated that he is being charged with second degree murder or “murder committed with a depraved mind but without premeditation”. On May 27th after a Grand Jury meeting, Fucci’s charge was upgraded to first degree murder. This means Fucci will be tried as an adult. If convicted, this charge typically holds a 25 to life sentence. Do to his age, his case will likely be eligible for review at 25 years old. This case is still developing, and the summary will be updated as more details emerge.

Case Summary

Israel Keyes Extended Summary

Israel Keyes was a serial killer, bank robber, arsonist, and burglar whose crimes spanned many states within the United States and occurred as far back as 1996 until shortly before his arrest on March 13th, 2012. This case is unusual because of the meticulous care taken to cover his tracks, and him choosing victims at random. For example, in one case he flew from Alaska to Chicago, rented a car, and drove 1,000 miles to Vermont before he picked his victims at random and used a “kill kit” he had hidden in the area years prior. His kill kits often contained materials to dispose of bodies, weapons, and money he obtained through bank robberies. The details of many of his murders are still unknown and authorities are still investigating them to this day. Keyes died via suicide while waiting for his trial for kidnapping and murdering Samantha Koenig.

Early Years and Family

Keyes was born on January 7, 1978, to a large Mormon family, in Cove, Utah. The second of 10 children, Keyes, and the other children were homeschooled. When Keyes was between 3 and 4 years old, his family deconverted from Mormonism and began practicing a radical Fundamental Christian faith that Keyes described as a more “militia type of church”. The family attended at least two churches, the Ark, and the Christian Israel Covenant Church, that taught “Christian Identity”, an ideology that is known to be antisemitic and racist.

Between 3 and 5 years old, around the time of the religious conversion, Keyes and his family relocated to Colville, Washington area where they lived an “Amish” lifestyle. They lived in a one-room cabin that Keyes’s father built without running water or electricity. It was here that the Keyes family became friends with Chevie Kehoe’s family, who committed 3 murders in 1996. By his teenage years, Keyes lost his faith in Christianity and temporarily became interested in Satanism.

At some point, Keyes was disowned by his father and not permitted to see his mother for an extended period of time. His relationship was often “hot and cold” with his family for many reasons including his atheism, his choice in women, and joining the military. By the time of Keyes’s father’s death in 2003 or 2004, Keyes and his father were on “ok” terms.  

Work History

On July 9th, 1998, when Keyes was 20 years old, he was processed out of Albany, NY into the United States Army and served until 2001. He served at Fort Lewis and Fort Hood and had a temporary duty assignment in Egypt between January 15th and June 1st, 2000. Keyes was awarded several military decorations and was discharged at the rank of specialist.

Keyes graduating Air Assault School Gin 1999

Former Army buddies described Keyes as being quiet and reserved but noted that he drank excessively on the weekends and liked the horrorcore group Insane Clown Posse. During their tour in Egypt, after being teased about his “Amish” upbringing, his Army friends branded a pentagram on him while they were all drinking.

At some point, Keyes applied to the Police for Port Gamble S’Klallam Tribe to become an officer but was never hired on. In 2002, Keyes was interviewed for a position at the Neah Bay Tribe’s Park and Recreation and was hired. A coworker there said that Keyes was a good worker, had superb carpentry and mechanic skills, and that they eventually became friends through their mutual love for NFL football. They would hang out, drink together, and have barbeques. This coworker also described a time where Keyes branded the anarchist’s “A” on his chest with a coat hanger and a propane torch while they hung out at Keyes house.

After relocating to Anchorage, Alaska, Keyes started a construction business in 2007 called Keyes Construction. Through his company he would work as a contractor, handyman, and construction worker. He kept this business until his arrest.

Relationship and Parenthood

In December of 2000, while Keyes was stationed in Fort Lewis, Keyes met his future wife through a phone chat line. They began dating and within 2 months she found herself pregnant with Keyes child, having already had an older son from a prior relationship. Initially, Keyes did not want them to keep the baby. Soon afterwards though, they made up and decided to keep the baby. Keyes then moved to Neah Bay to support her since she was not working at the time.

By the December of the next year, Keyes became engaged to her. His fiancé noted that Keyes was very tight with money but was not the jealous type, watched normal pornography and had no unusual fetishes, and was never violent. She went so far as to say that she would try to “push his buttons” to get a reaction but could never get one.

By May of 2004, they broke up and he moved into his own house in Neah Bay, though they still continued to see each other casually. Keyes had a few girlfriends before finding his next long-term relationship in 2005, which whom he stayed with until his arrest. In 2007 his girlfriend moved up to Anchorage, Alaska for a job opportunity, and 6 months later Keyes followed her there with his daughter.

Keyes is reported to have had a great relationship with his daughter. A coworker of his said that he was very protective of his daughter. So much so that he said the way that he knew that Keyes trusted him was that Keyes had let him drive his daughter to the airport one time. He would regularly be the one to do his daughter’s hair, often in pigtails or French braids, a skill he acquired from his sisters in childhood.

 Everyone, including exes, friends, and coworkers described him as an excellent worker, good boyfriend or husband, and great father with no signs of aggression or criminal behavior.

Samantha Koenig

On February 1st, 2012, Samantha Koenig was working alone at the Common Grounds Coffee Stand in Anchorage, Alaska near the intersection of Tudor Road and Fairbanks Street.

Samantha Koenig

At approximately 10:00 p.m., Keyes parked his truck across Tudor Road in a Home Depot parking lot and walked over to the coffee stand, threatening Samantha with a gun. He then proceeded to climb through the window, robbed the coffee stand, and led Samantha out of the small building after binding her hands with zip ties. She managed to escape his grasp while on Tudor Road, where Keyes had to chase and tackle her and held the gun to her side to get her to his vehicle.

At 10:33 p.m. Samantha’s boyfriend arrived at the coffee stand to pick her up after work, but the Common Ground Coffee Stand seemed to be closed without any sign of Samantha. The lights were off, and the stand appeared to be locked up for the night. Her boyfriend tried to text and call her without a response.

Common Grounds Coffee Stand

While out of state, Samantha’s boss checked his internet-based security system only to find that Samantha had been abducted. Security system footage showed Samantha putting her hands up as a sign of submission, giving Keyes the money out of her register, then Keyes climbing through the window and leading her away at gunpoint. Authorities were then alerted.

At 11:24 p.m., Samantha’s boyfriend got a text that said “F U asshole I know what u did I am going to spend a couple of days with friends need time to think plan actig weird let my dad know”. Based on the way the text was written, spelling errors, and phrases used, Samantha’s boyfriend did not think she was responsible for the text he received from her phone. At 11:53 p.m. he got another text that said only “F U”. He tried texting and calling more but did not get a response.

About 3 hours later at 3:00 a.m. on February 2, 2012, Samantha’s boyfriend witnessed Keyes outside of his house rummaging through his and Samantha’s shared vehicle with a mask on. He did not think the two incidents were related and had not yet known that Samantha had been kidnapped. Stolen from the vehicle was Samantha’s driver’s license and his Credit Union One debit card that went to a shared account with Samantha. Approximately 30 minutes later, Keyes attempted to withdraw money from a local ATM wearing a black hoodie, sunglasses, and black gloves.

Keyes’s house in Alaska, with shed where murder occurred

Keyes drove around with Samantha in his truck for a couple of hours, only stopping at a local Anchorage park to use cable ties to secure Samantha to a bench in his truck. When he deemed it late enough that he would not be detected by his girlfriend or neighbors, he brought Samantha to a shed in front of his garage at his house that he had set up two days before anticipating abducting someone. He had put down a tarp, a foam mat, a sleeping bag, two space heaters, and a radio.

Once Keyes got Samantha into the shed, Keyes bound her with zip ties and rope, and proceeding to sexually assault her over a few hours. After the sexual assault, Keyes murdered Samantha then wrapped her in a tarp and placed her inside of a cabinet that was inside of the shed.

Immediately after Samantha’s murder, Keyes went inside, took a shower, got his daughter ready for their flight from Alaska to Huston Texas, and called a cab to the airport. Keyes then purchased a rental vehicle in Texas, which he put 2847 miles on, and drove to Lafayette, Louisiana. At the same time as he was arriving at Lafayette, Louisiana, Anchorage Police Department was requesting assistance from the FBI in identifying Samantha’s kidnapper.

In Louisiana, Keyes and his daughter went to a “kid’s Mardi Gras” before going on a 5-day cruise on the 6th of February. This Carnival Cruise from New Orleans was not unexpected, with his daughter’s mother being aware of it for months ahead of time. The night before, Keyes’s daughter’s mother called and noted that nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Her daughter just told her that they were packing for their trip. Despite how normal everything seemed, Keyes would abduct and murder Samantha a couple hours later. After returning from the cruise, Keyes and his daughter spent time with family in Texas.

On February 13th, Keyes left his family’s home in Texas before the sun rose, leaving a note on the bed saying that he had to fix his windshield and find a place to hide his guns. His family texted him from the shared family phone and said that they could bring his guns to someone’s house for him, but he did not respond. The next time the family was able to get ahold of him was at nighttime when he said that he was “stuck in the middle of nowhere”. The family tried to text him several times offering to pick him up but didn’t hear anything from him again until the following evening when he asked to be picked up. Despite going to where he said, they could not find him, and his family ended up sleeping in their van in the parking lot of a mall in Cleburne waiting for him. The following morning, on the 15th of February, he called and said he was on the other side of the mall. When they found him he said he had run out of gas, had gotten his rental vehicle stuck in the mud, his cards had been frozen, and he had not eaten or slept in two days.

National Bank of Texas Robbery, February 16th, 2012

On the 16th after getting back to his family’s residence he rescheduled his and his daughter’s flight to Alaska since he caused them to miss it. After getting new tickets for February 18th, Keyes left his family’s house and did not return for several hours. This was later determined to be because he was robbing the National Bank of Texas in Azle, as well as taking jewelry from a home before lighting it on fire, burning the 3500 square foot home to the ground. That evening, he met with members of his family’s church. The following day he was not present at his family’s home, and then the next day on the 18th he flew back to Alaska with his daughter.

When Keyes returned to Alaska, Samantha’s father had already been heavily fundraising for his daughter’s return or any information regarding her disappearance on Facebook. He explicitly told the public that he would give all of the raised money, no questions asked, to the kidnapper for Samantha’s safe return. One of his Facebook posts stated “…WHOEVER HAS MY DAUGHTER JUST RING HER ANYWHERE, TO A HOSPITAL, HOMES, SEND HER IN A CAB HOME ANONYMOUSLY, AND I WILL LEAVE ALL THE MONEY WE HAVE COLLECTED IN A CERTAIN PLACE OF YOUR CHOOSING WITHIN MINUTES OF YOUR INSTRUCTIONS, JUST RETURN HER TO ME.”

Photo on the back of ransom note depicting Samantha’s body posed to seem alive

Keyes removed Samantha’s body from the cabinet and used a hair blow dryer to thaw her body. He posed her body to make it appear as though she was still alive, which included sewing her eyes open with fishing line. He styled her hair and used her makeup that was in her purse to make it appear as if she was not already deceased. He then took a photograph of her with a 4-day old copy of the Anchorage Daily News newspaper. After printing out the photo with a color ink jet printer, he used a type writer to write a ransom note on the back. After this was completed, Keyes placed plastic on the floor and portions of the walls before dismembering Samantha’s body. He then spent several days disposing her body in Matanuska Lake.

After disposing of her body, Keyes removed the cabinets and portions of the flooring and insulation to get rid of blood evidence before replacing the floor. He also burned Samantha’s clothing and purse, a bloody sleeping bag from the assault, and wood from inside of the shed.

Text Keyes sent from Samantha’s Phone

On February 23, 2012, Keyes again texted Samantha’s boyfriend from Samantha’s phone and gave him instructions on how to find the ransom note. Samantha’s boyfriend then called Samantha’s father who called the police. The ransom note and picture was found at Conner’s Bog Park in Anchorage under a missing dog flyer for a dog named “Albert” as the text message said. The ransom demanded $30,000 and did not threaten any consequence if the ransom was not met. Instead, it said that in exchange for the ransom, the boyfriend would receive a text that gave the location of a packet of information that would give law enforcement all of the information they needed to know to find Samantha.  The note also included her boyfriend’s debit card number. The note read in part that “I may not use the card much in AK due to small pop but as I will be leaving soon, I will be using it all over” and “she almost got away twice, once on Tudor and once in the desert. Must be losing my touch”.

On February 29, 2012, Samantha’s father deposited $5,000 into the account. At 10:13 p.m. Keyes sat in his girlfriend’s 2007 Nissan Xterra for several minutes outside of an ATM before a failed attempt at withdrawing the ransom money wearing facemask, glasses, and dark clothes. At 11:56 p.m., he successfully withdrew $500 at another ATM in Anchorage.

Security photo of Keyes at ATM in Shephard, Texas

About a week later, Keyes flew his daughter and himself to Las Vegas, Nevada before renting a white Ford Focus at the airport and driving south to go to his sister’s wedding in Wells, Texas. On his drive, he used Samantha’s boyfriend’s debit card in Willcox, Arizona, Lordburg, New Mexico, Humble, Texas, and Shephard, Texas.

On March 8th, 2012, Keyes and his daughter arrived at his mother’s house at 10 p.m. in preparation for the wedding. He explained that he drove from Los Vegas to Texas because the plane ticket to Los Vegas was the cheapest he could find. Keyes also told his family that his girlfriend had to work and that’s why she would not be attending the wedding. On March 13th, Keyes was apprehended by authorities in Texas.

Other Crimes and Murders

Keyes has admitted to other crimes, including having murdered 8 other victims. His death has complicated solving many of the crimes, but his DNA is on file.

Keyes is suspected to have burglarized upwards of 30 homes across the United States including one confirmed in Texas that he lit on fire. On top of the bank robbery in Texas the same day as the Texas burglary, Keyes has also been confirmed to be the perpetrator of a bank robbery in Tupper Lake, New York in April 2009. Other bank robberies are possible. It is also believed by authorities that there are several more “kill kits” hidden around the country.

“Kill kit” found by authorities in New York that included a .22 caliber Ruger weapon, empty magazines, ammunition, and a silencer, among other things

Keyes’s first known violent crime is thought to have occurred between June 1st and September 1st of 1997 where he abducted and raped an unknown female near Maupin, Oregon. Keyes also admitted to murdering a person in upstate New York in April 2009. Authorities find his admission credible, noting that Keyes has ties to New York and owns 10 acres and a run-down cabin in Constable, NY, and had been confirmed to have committed a bank robbery around the same time.  It is also believed that he murdered a couple and an unrelated victim in two separate incidents in Washington State.

The FBI has asked for the help of the public in solving cases relating to Keyes. They have published his known movements that can be found here. It may prove useful to look at his travel history to determine where and when he likely committed a serious crime. For example, between February 6th and February 13th, 2004, Keyes rented a silver Volkswagen Jetta with the license plate 267WVW from Enterprise in Salt Lake City, Utah, and then drove 522 miles despite not having permission to leave the state from the rental company. Again 6 months later between October 6th and October 15th, 2004, Keyes took a Southwest Airlines flight to Manchester New Hampshire from Washington, then rented a Kia Amani (license plate 1230139) and drove 1,745 miles, this time getting permission to cross states lines first. Given his history with traveling far distances to commit his crimes, it is likely that he committed a serious crime during these time periods.

Murder of Bill and Lorraine Currier

On June 2nd, 2011, Keyes flew from Anchorage, Alaska to Chicago, Illinois through Alaska Airlines, then rented a vehicle in Des Plaines, Illinois which he drove all the way to Essex, Vermont. Here, Keyes retrieved a “murder kit” he had hidden two years prior and then looked for an ideal place to target. Some items in the cache included premade ligatures, a propane camp stove, several bottles of water, duct tape, and latex gloves.

Bill and Lorraine Currier

Bill and Lorraine Currier were a middle-aged married couple who lived in Burlington, Vermont. On June 8th, 2011, Keyes broke into the Currier’s house and bound them before bringing them to an abandoned farmhouse that he scoped out the day before.

Interior door from the garage of the Currier’s home

He brought Bill to the basement and shot him in the head when he yelled out “where is my wife?” before he sexually assaulted and strangled Lorraine in an upstairs bedroom. Their bodies were never located, though the place he indicated the bodies would be had been demolished. After the murders, he relocated his kill kit to Parishville, New York where authorities retrieved it after he confessed to where that particular kill kit was. Several more are thought to still exist.

After returning the rental vehicle, Keyes took a Continental Airlines flight from Chicago, Illinois to San Francisco, California before flying back to Anchorage, Alaska a few days later.

Arrest, Imprisonment, and Death

Israel Keyes’s Arrest

On March 13th, 2012, Texas Highway Patrol located a vehicle matching the description of his rental vehicle at a Quality Inn & Suites parking lot in Lufkin Texas. Since it was the only hotel near the last place he had tried to use Samantha’s boyfriend’s debit card, authorities had already asked for the house list from the hotel’s front desk. Texas ranger Steven Rayburn informed the Texas Department of Public Safety of his find before doing a visual inspection and finding that there was a barcode sticker on the vehicle typical of rental vehicles. He also noticed pink clothing that he assumed was a woman’s belongings. He then maintained surveillance of the vehicle. Within 15 minutes, Keyes exited room number 215, and put items in the rental’s trunk. Police determined that room 215 was registered to an “Elijah Keyes”, an alias Keyes was using. Shortly after, Texas ranger Rayburn pulled Keyes over under the suspicion of the Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas fraudulent ATM withdraws, along with speeding.

Keyes soon became agitated and nervous, sweating profusely. Keyes then stated that if he was going to be kept much longer he wanted to call his brother who had his daughter in another vehicle. Texas ranger Rayburn suggested that Keyes do that since he would not be able to leave anytime soon. On Keyes, authorities found Samantha’s boyfriend’s debit card.

Pictures found under Keyes’s body

Four days later Keyes admitted to using the card but claimed that an unknown person had left a bag which contained Samantha’s cellphone and her boyfriend’s debit card in the bed of his truck while it was parked in his driveway. Obviously, this was not true. Soon after, he began actually admitting his crimes. Since much of what he has told authorities has been confirmed, his confessions are deemed credible. Despite this, Keyes was very careful about what he said so that he could use his divulging of information to his benefit. He wanted the death penalty and to not be tried for other crimes besides Samantha’s, as well as keeping the information of the cases away from the media to protect his daughter. Before he could confess to everything, Keyes committed suicide just two days after telling investigators that he was becoming impatient with the process and that he was displeased about information being leaked to the media directly after he confessed it to them. Under his body authorities found a suicide letter than gave no new clues and 12 pictures painted in Keyes’s blood, thought to represent his 11 victims and himself.

Case Summary Uncategorized

Jah’Sean Hodge Case Summary

On May 5th, 2020, 9-year-old Jadalee Pagan was brutally attacked by a family friend, Jah’Sean Hodge in Saint Cloud, Florida. Jadalee’s mother, Veronica Snyder, calls Jah’Sean Hodge Jadalee’s uncle, although there is no relation. Minutes after the attack, police made contact with Jah’Sean Hodge where he refused to obey orders to stop, shouted to shoot him multiple times, and rushed an officer who ended up shooting and killing him as he tried to retreat after the taser proved ineffective. While Jadalee Pagan was still too injured to speak while in the children’s ICU, her mother spoke to news stations and said that police had shot the wrong person. She stated that Jah’Sean Hodge was attempting to protect Jadalee from an unseen intruder and was injured during the incident. She continued by saying that “he saved his niece’s life” and that he was a hero.

This response led to a public outcry despite all evidence pointing to Jah’Sean as the only perpetrator in the attack. When Jadalee became well enough to speak, she named Jah’Sean and only Jah’Sean as her attacker while still in the ICU. After this, Jadalee’s mother changed her opinion and made a statement saying “we finally got answers, and I have a lot to accept, but I just want to say that St. Cloud Police Department did their job. Let’s just not make this any worse than it is”.

Additionally, DNA evidence from the knife and barbell used to stab and bludgeon Jadalee, blood on Jah’Sean’s shirt, and skin under Jadalee’s fingernails all pointed to Jah’Sean being the only attacker. Jadalee has survived the attack and has recovered well.

Background Information

Jadalee Pagan

Jadalee did not grow up with her mom, Veronica Snyder, since she was incarcerated in 2012 shortly after Jadalee was born. She was released in September of 2018. Even at the time of the incident, Veronica Snyder typically stayed in her boyfriend’s apartment downstairs while her two children, mother, and brother lived in the upstairs apartment. Jah’Sean Hodge, who Veronica Snyder calls her brother, though is of no blood relation, did not live upstairs with Jadalee but did stay there sometimes according to Veronica’s mother. He was a close friend of the family.

Attempted Murder

On May 5th, 2020, Veronica’s mother left to go to Walmart with Veronica’s brother, who was dropping her off there. Before she left the house, 21-year-old Jah’Sean took a shower, and was last seen on the floor by the TV with 9-year-old Jadalee. They both were on their phones. As far as Veronica’s mother could tell, everything was normal, including Jah’Sean’s behavior. Minutes after she left, Veronica’s boyfriend heard a scream from upstairs while in his downstairs apartment. Hearing a commotion wasn’t unusual living in an apartment building that housed several children. Veronica’s boyfriend jokingly said, “who screams like that?”, to which he was told that it was probably Jadalee mad at a game. After walking to his kitchen, he heard a second scream that sounded aggressive and like a man “in rage”. From the downstairs apartment with her boyfriend, Veronica then heard Jah’Sean say “Oh my God” while running down the stairs. Upon looking out the window, she witnessed him running south down their road.

Location of Incident

Veronica and her boyfriend ran up to the upstairs apartment to investigate the noises and found Jadalee covered in blood on the living room floor. Veronica’s boyfriend told a neighbor to call 911 and also called himself. His call came into emergency dispatchers first at 12:43 P.M., and the neighbor’s call came in less than a minute afterwards, about 10 or 15 minutes after Veronica’s mother left to go to Wal-Mart. On Veronica’s boyfriend’s 911 call he can be heard pleading for an ambulance and states that he is not sure what happened but that the child is bleeding from her head and needs immediate help. On the neighbor’s 911 call, the neighbor went upstairs to the apartment and relayed to dispatchers that there was a knife involved. As Veronica’s brother was nearing the apartment building after dropping off their mother at Wal-Mart, he receives a call from Veronica telling him that Jadalee is bleeding. When he arrived, he saw Veronica holding Jadalee’s bloody body, took her from Veronica, and loaded her into the car to go to the hospital.  On the way to the hospital, the car used to transport Veronica and Jadalee was stopped by police where Saint Cloud Police Department first got confirmation that Jadalee had definitely been stabbed and was bleeding profusely from her neck.

When they arrived at Saint Cloud Regional Medical Center, a patient access employee heard Veronica and her brother yelling for help saying that Jadalee had been stabbed. A paramedic who was doing screenings for COVID 19 outside of the hospital’s emergency department transported Jadalee from the vehicle into the hospital and noted that blood was “bubbling” out of Jadalee’s neck and overheard Veronica and her mother talking about an “uncle” that wasn’t related to them possibly being responsible. Once inside the hospital, a nurse heard Veronica’s mother state “you know he was going to do this” to Veronica, but who she was talking about was not said. Because of the severity of Jadalee’s injuries, she was transported to Arnold Palmer Hospital and was admitted into the children’s ICU. There, she continued to receive treatment and surgeries for her injuries, and it was noted that a “J” was carved into her forehead. Veronica was not able to stay with Jadalee because of COVID 19 precautions. Instead, she made appearances on local news where she said that Jah’Sean was actually a victim of the attack by an unknown perpetrator and was running erratically covered in blood trying to find the person who attacked him and Jadalee.

Jah’Sean Hodge

When police went to the house where the incident happened, they found blood on the main door to the apartment building, the stairs and wall leading up to the apartment, both sides of the apartment door, on the carpet in front of and further back from the television in the living room, and on the door of one of the bedrooms. Inside of the kitchen sink was a bloody knife with the blade broken from the handle and in the bedroom with the bloody door, blood was found on a barbell with weights on both sides. Veronica’s boyfriend said the knife was originally near Jadalee on the floor where the blood stains were, but he moved it to the sink when it was almost stepped on.

On May 8th police began to try to interview Jadalee while she was still in the children’s ICU. Interviewing her took many attempts because she would often get upset, not respond, or become confused. In one attempt she was asked if she knew how she got hurt and she said she did not know. When asked if she remembers being at her house, she said that she had a dream where Jah’Sean stabbed her. She then goes on to ask for them not to be brought there. During another interview with Jadalee in the children’s ICU, Jadalee named Jah’Sean as the only perpetrator multiple times and said “I stood up to say ‘hi’ and then I said ‘why do you have that knife in your hand?’” to which he responded “it was you” before stabbing her. She also stated that he choked her while “killing her”.

Jah’Sean’s Movements After the Attack and Police Shooting

After Jah’Sean left the apartment, he jogged south on the apartment’s street and about a block away he passed two teenagers on a golf cart who called 911 because he was bleeding and acting strangely. During police interview they stated that at one point he looked like he was on the opposite side of the street and may come out into the middle of the street and tapped his fingers together like he may be attempting to get their attention but then went back to the other side of the road and continued to run. They made eye contact with Jah’Sean but he never said anything. In their 911 call they noted that he had blood on his hands, chest, and head. Behind them was a U-Haul driver that also passed Jah’Sean but he didn’t make an attempt to flag them down either. Shortly afterwards a 12-year-old child saw Jah’Sean who pointed in his direction and yelled to “get back in the house”.

Jah’Sean Hodge’s Movements

Jah’Sean continued south until he reached the driveway of a person he did not know and laid face down in their driveway. A neighbor saw this and asked Jah’Sean if he was okay and he said “yes”. This neighbor went inside before coming back out 10 seconds later to see Jah’Sean running north towards O P Johnson Park, before jumping a fence on the corner of a block about two and a half blocks from the apartment. Here, he opened a camper door of a person he did not know and went inside before jumping the fence into another person’s yard where he removed his shirt inside of their screened in pool area. He then ran across the street from this house before police make contact with him while he’s in their front yard, shirtless and covered in blood. He first approached Officer Fertic who was on the passenger side of the patrol vehicle. Officer Fertic repeatedly ordered Jah’Sean to stop and pulled out his taser. Jah’Sean responded by saying “shoot me then” and continued to approach him. Officer Dunn stepped out of the driver side door and pulled out his firearm. Jah’Sean then abruptly changed his focus and rushed Officer Dunn. The taser was deployed without any effect, Officer Dunn attempted to retreat, then fired his firearm 4 times, killing Jah’Sean Hodge. The officers performed CPR until EMTs arrived.


As a result of canvassing a two-block radius of the attack, police recovered several pieces of evidence along with witness accounts. Many witness statements were taken, none of which showed anyone running in front of Jah’Sean or anyone leaving the apartment building besides Jah’Sean. Surveillance video also showed Jah’Sean jogging down the street, not chasing anyone. At one point, a police officer saw someone matching Jah’Sean’s description jogging down the road before losing sight of him.

Bloody Barbell in Apartment

Witnesses heard banging and noises that were recognized as weights being dropped and clanked together. The bloody barbell found in a bedroom in the upstairs apartment not only tested positive for Jah’Sean and Jadalee’s blood and no one elses, Jah’Sean’s bloody fingerprint was left on it. The knife blade and handle found at the crime scene tested positive for Jadalee and Jah’Sean’s blood and no one else. Similarly, the shirt Jah’Sean removed in a neighbor’s screened in pool area only had his and Jadalee’s blood. Jah’Sean’s DNA was also found under Jadalee’s fingernails. There was no evidence or DNA from a third party.

Knife Used in Attack

Upon autopsy, it was found that Jah’Sean Hodge had 14 stab wounds, most being on the left side and superficial, consistent with being self-inflicted. This is collaborated with text messages recovered from his phone that indicated that he attempted to kill himself at or around the time of the attack. Three of the stab wounds were more substantial, with one nicking a lung, another piercing his chest wall, and one cutting through his pinky to the bone. Toxicology only showed cannabinoids in his system.

Conflicting Stories

Complicating this tragic case was the inconsistencies in stories. These inconsistencies fueled theories that led to the public outcry. For example, according to statements made to police, Jah’Sean’s behavior was normal when he was last seen with Jadalee directly before the incident. In one of these statements Veronica’s mother said that Jah’Sean had taken a shower, was laying on the floor near Jadalee in front of the TV, and was acting normally. Contrary to what was said in police statements, Veronica said to a doctor at Saint Cloud Regional Medical Center that she witnessed Jah’Sean “acting crazy and running around the house”. What Veronica saw and heard during the incident has also been inconsistent. In a police interview, Veronica told police that she went downstairs to have a cigarette after her mother and brother went to Wal-Mart. Minutes later she heard him run down the stairs saying “oh my God” then saw him through the downstairs apartment window running south on their street.

Jadalee Pagan’s Birthday

When another officer was driving Veronica to Arnold Palmer Hospital she made and received several calls. In one of the calls she told the person on the other end that she passed Jah’Sean on the stairs while she ran upstairs from the downstairs apartment and noticed blood on his hands. On another call made during the car ride she said that she had seen him “chasing the guy that had hurt Jada”, though she didn’t see anyone he was chasing. While at Saint Cloud Regional Medical Center, Veronica told a patient access employee that she was laying in her bed in the downstairs apartment when she heard screaming coming from upstairs and this time she also said that Jah’Sean passed her on the stairs. When she told the patient access employee, she specifically said he said nothing to her.  To the patient registration coordinator, she said that she was gardening outside when she heard a scream and that she saw Jah’Sean running from the house, bloody. This also contradicts her boyfriend’s statement which said she was in his apartment with him. The next time she spoke to the patient registration coordinator, she said that she didn’t see anything and that she thought he was chasing after someone. The patient registration coordinator stated that at this time she stopped asking Veronica questions because she felt that her “story was changing every time they spoke about it”.

Through these statements and high emotions, a third-party attacker theory developed. A rumor began that someone had run through the back yard and was possibly involved. This was ruled out after police interviewed a neighbor who was watering their flowers in the back yard of the apartment building during the incident. This neighbor stated that they heard what they thought was kids jumping around before Veronica began screaming for help. They stated they never saw anyone in the back yard of the apartment building and that the back yard can not be accessed through the common area of the house.

Although the mother’s of both Jadalee and Jah’Sean speculated publicly that Jah’Sean was actually a victim of the attack and was behaving strangely because he was wounded and trying to find the attacker, statements made by Veronica and others show that even those closest to the situation suspected Jah’Sean from the beginning. An example of this would be the statement reported by the paramedic doing COVID 19 screenings at Saint Cloud Regional Medical Center where Veronica and her mother were suspecting Jah’Sean was responsible for the attack immediately after getting to the hospital. Still, statements to news outlets continued to be made until Veronica heard Jadalee tell investigators that Jah’Sean was the culprit numerous times, and DNA evidence showed only Jah’Sean’s DNA. In the end, Veronica spoke to the media again and expressed that she struggled to believe that Jah’Sean was the attacker because of his relationship with the family, but she conclusively knows who did it now, though she will never know why.

9-1-1 Transcripts

Jah’Sean Hodge Case 911 Transcript – Neighbor

On May 5th, 2020 Veronica Snyder found her 9-year-old daughter, Jadalee Pagan, with multiple life-threatening injuries after being left alone with a family friend, Jah’Sean Hodge. Jah’Sean was bloody and wounded when seen running away from the apartment and did not stop to tell anyone that Jadalee was injured or how he was hurt. Jadalee had sustained stab wounds to her face and neck including a 12-centimeter gash across her throat penetrating through the muscle and trachea, along with temporal, orbital, and sinus cavity fractures. While Veronica tended to her daughter and brought her to the hospital with Jadalee’s uncle, Jah’Sean exhibited strange behavior before being contacted by police where he yelled at them to shoot him while running towards them failing to obey commands. He was shot and died as a result of those injuries. The following is a transcript of the 911 call placed by the neighbor of Veronica Snyder and Jadalee Pagan.

Dispatcher: Saint Cloud Police Department [inaudible] how can we help you?

Witness: I need an am… Yeah, we need an ambulance right now.

Dispatcher: What’s the address? What is the address?

Witness: Um, [censored]

Dispatcher: Okay, so stay on the line with me, um, I just, I have some questions for you while we get them on the way. What is the number you are calling from?

Witness: Uh, [censored] going on, I, I’m not exactly sure what’s going on.

Dispatcher: Okay, just repeat that phone number for me in case we get disconnected.

Witness: [censored]

Dispatcher: I’m sorry, I can’t hear [inaudible], just the last four.

[background yelling]

Dispatcher: The last four of the phone number ma’am.

Witness: [censored]

Dispatcher: Tell me exactly what happened.

Witness: Uh, I don’t know. Something happened with my neighbor’s child.

Dispatcher: Did she fall? Did they fall? I think we are getting another call on it as well.

Witness: I’m, I’m, I’m really not sure. I really don’t know.

Dispatcher: Okay, okay. Is, is there any way we could take the phone and, and, to get closer to find out what happened?

Witness: I just know that there was a knife involved. I think one of the kids were left alone and…

Dispatcher: Okay, do we know how old the patient is? How old the child is?

Witness: Uh, she’s like 9 or 10?

[background yelling]

Dispatcher: Okay, stay on the phone with me. We’re getting help on the way, okay? This isn’t delaying them. Can you tell me, is she still awake?

Witness: Yeah. They’re going to the hospital now. [inaudible] they…

Dispatcher: Okay, and let them know that that’s not the safest thing to do they need to. They need to, I want them to know that help is not far away, okay?

Witness: Okay.

Dispatcher: Can you let them know that we’re sending help and to, to, to stay with you? To stay there? Can you tell me, is the child awake?

Witness: They’re, they’re in the car already.

Dispatcher: In the car. Tell me what kind of car it is.

Witness: Uh, it’s a, a, it’s uh, fuckin’, silver car. They’re, they’re already gone. I don’t, I don’t remember the car.

Dispatcher: Okay, a silver vehicle, which way did they go? They left with the child in the car. The back roads.

Witness: They’re going to the Lakefront.

Dispatcher: I’m sorry, towards the Lakefront?

Witness: They’re going to the hospital.

Dispatcher: Do you know which hospital they’re going to?

Witness: Saint Cloud Hospital.

Dispatcher: They’re going to Saint Cloud, okay. Okay, so the, the, the child is not, is no longer there. And it occurred at this 36 Georgia Avenue? That’s where the child was at?

Witness: Yeah.

Dispatcher: Okay. Do you have any [inaudible] or uh, contact information for the parents or whoever is with the child?

Witness: Uh, I don’t rem…, I don’t know, I don’t have her number right now.

Dispatcher: Okay.


Dispatcher: Alright, what is, [inaudible] can you tell me anything about what they told you happened or… what [cross-talk]

Witness: Just she was left alone. The little girl was left alone for like five minutes and I think she got ahold of something, I’m not sure.

Dispatcher: Okay.

Witness: But they took her to the hospital already. There’s an officer here now.

Dispatcher: Okay. Go ahead and talk to him.

Witness: Thank you. Okay.

Dispatcher: Alright, thank you so much.

9-1-1 Transcripts

Jah’Sean Hodge Case 911 Transcript – Passerby

On May 5th, 2020 Veronica Snyder found her 9-year-old daughter, Jadalee Pagan, with multiple life-threatening injuries after being left alone with a family friend, Jah’Sean Hodge. Jah’Sean was bloody and wounded when seen running away from the apartment and did not stop to tell anyone that Jadalee was injured or how he was hurt. Jadalee had sustained stab wounds to her face and neck including a 12-centimeter gash across her throat penetrating through the muscle and trachea, along with temporal, orbital, and sinus cavity fractures. While Veronica tended to her daughter and brought her to the hospital with Jadalee’s uncle, Jah’Sean exhibited strange behavior before being contacted by police where he yelled at them to shoot him while running towards them failing to obey commands. He was shot and died as a result of those injuries. The following is a transcript of the 911 call placed by a passerby riding a golf cart while Jah’Sean was walking down Georgia Avenue after the incident.

Dispatcher: [inaudible] how may I help you?

Witness: Hello, we were, um, driving down Georgia and we seen this guy covered in blood on his hands, his chest and head and… and he was like flopping his arms around. Like, he was really injured but he like, tried to stop us, but he didn’t.

Dispatcher: Okay, how long ago was that?

Witness: Not even ten minutes ago.

Dispatcher: Okay, where at on Georgia?

Witness: Georgia and 3rd.

Dispatcher: Okay. We actually have officers that are in that area right now and he was on Georgia Avenue by 3rd street?

Witness: Yes.

Dispatcher: Okay, when did he…[cross-talk]

Witness: He was running up towards 10th.

Dispatcher: He was going towards 10th. What did he, uh, what was he wearing?

Witness: Wear a black shirt and black, uh, basketball shorts, and a, I think, black shoes.

Dispatcher: Okay, we’ll update the officers just to make sure that that’s the description of the person they’re out with, but they are there in the area with a similar person.

Witness: Okay, thank you.

Dispatcher: Thank you.

9-1-1 Transcripts

Jah’Sean Hodge Case 911 Transcript – Victim’s Mother’s Boyfriend

On May 5th, 2020 Veronica Snyder found her 9-year-old daughter, Jadalee Pagan, with multiple life-threatening injuries after being left alone with a family friend, Jah’Sean Hodge. Jah’Sean was bloody and wounded when seen running away from the apartment and did not stop to tell anyone that Jadalee was injured or how he was hurt. Jadalee had sustained stab wounds to her face and neck including a 12-centimeter gash across her throat penetrating through the muscle and trachea, along with temporal, orbital, and sinus cavity fractures. While Veronica tended to her daughter and brought her to the hospital with Jadalee’s uncle, Jah’Sean exhibited strange behavior before being contacted by police where he yelled at them to shoot him while running towards them failing to obey commands. He was shot and died as a result of those injuries. The following is a transcript of the 911 call placed by Veronica’s boyfriend at the time of the crime.  

Dispatcher: 911, what’s the address of the emergency?

Witness: I need a, I need a, emergency [inaudible] as soon as possible.

Dispatcher: What is the address?

Witness: [inaudible] on [censored]

Dispatcher: Repeat that once for me.

Witness: Thirty [censored]

Dispatcher: Ok, what is the phone number your calling from?

Witness: [censored] 66.

Dispatcher: ok, tell me exactly what happened.

Witness: We don’t know. All I know is, um, my girlfriend’s, um, daughter needs an ambulance soon [inaudible]. She’s bleeding from her head and she was upstairs by herself.

Dispatcher: Ok. Just stay on the line with me, we’re going get some [inaudible]. I just need gather some information for the responders, okay?

Witness: [inaudible]

[Yelling in background]

Dispatcher: I just, I just want to confirm, you said she’s bleeding from her head but do we know… why, what happened?

Witness: Yeah, [inaudible] her head. I need a ambulance as soon as possible. Just send somebody, please!

Dispatcher:  Okay, my partners are already dispatching help. Just give me one moment.

[inaudible female crying]

Dispatcher: Is there someone else up on the line with… us?

Witness: Yes, somebody is, um, yea, [inaudible stammering]. I just need someone here as soon as possible, can you just send somebody, please?

Dispatcher: Okay, I understand we already have called [cross-talk]

Witness: Just send an ambulance…

Dispatcher: Sir, I already have the call in but I’m just confirming someone else is already on the line with 911.

[background noises]

Dispatcher: Hello?

[background noise, female voice]

Witness: [inaudible] that’s it.

Dispatcher:  Ok

[background noises and yelling]

Dispatcher: Okay, we are already getting someone sent out.  We do have police on the way as well, okay?

[background yelling]

Witness: Uh, uh, um,

Female voice: That’s far away…

Witness: [inaudible] taking to the hospital.

[female yelling]

Witness: Alright.

[female yelling]

Dispatcher: Okay. We already, we already have people on the way, and we, my partners already got information from someone who’s on the phone. Okay?

[female screaming]

Dispatcher: Hello?

Witness: Yeah, I hear you.

Dispatcher: Okay.

Female voice: … a place to go.

Dispatcher: Okay, is the, is the patient still there?

Witness: She’s going to the hospital.

Dispatcher: They’re going to the hospital?

Witness: They’re going to hospital right now.

Dispatcher: Okay.

Witness: Yeah. Her uncle just came back from [inaudible], he left for a minute and…

Dispatcher: [cross-talk] Okay.

Witness: …he’s back but I’m at the house.

Dispatcher: Okay, okay. We can go ahead and disconnect we already have, um, help on the way but my partner is already gathering their information. Okay? Okay.

Witness: Alright, I’ll be here.

Dispatcher: Okay, thank you.

Witness: Alright.

Police Interrogations Uncategorized

Paul Bernardo Police Interrogation Transcript

Paul Bernardo is a serial killer and serial rapist (the Scarborough Rapist) in Canada, active between 1987 and 1992. Prior to marrying is ex-wife, he had only committed rapes. His wife, Karla Homolka, participated in the murders and helped obtain the girls that would be killed. In the case of Elizabeth Bain’s murder, the defendant, Robert Baltovich’s attorney contended that Bernardo was the actual perpetrator. The following is the police interview about this.


Paul Bernardo Police Interview Transcript

Detective Brad Hoover: My name is, uh, Detective Brad Hoover. Uh, My patch number 6188. I’m with the Toronto Police Sex Crime Unit. Uh, the time now is 2:05 p.m. and we’re presently at the Kingston Penitentiary in Kingston Ontario, uh, in a board room as thick as the main building, you would call it. Um, present in the room here, if I could just have the two of you identify yourself for the purposes of the video tape that’s being made. Seated to my left, off camera, um, now sitting at the table is your counsel? Just, could you please identify yourself?

Counsel Anthony Bryant: Yes, sir. It’s Anthony Bryant.

Detective Brad Hoover: And, uh, straight across the table from me, if you could identify yourself please?

Detective Coulis: [inaudible] Coulis C-O-U-L-I-S Badge number 64834 police service.

Detective Brad Hoover: And seated to my right, if you could just identify yourself please?

Paul Bernardo: Paul Jason Teale AKA Paul Bernardo.

Detective Brad Hoover: And again, my name is Brad Hoover and today is June the 7th of 2007. Mr. Teale, the reason we’re here today is, uh, to speak to you in regards to a couple of incid… a couple of matters. First of all, before we start, I just want you to, um, make sure you are aware that what we say is being videotaped here.

Paul Bernardo: Yeah, I’m aware.

Detective Brad Hoover: I’m just going to start this audio tape. I forgot to do that before. [bang and beep] Uh, just started this audio tape here. We started the interview at 2:05 p.m. My name is, uh, Detective Brad Hoover. Paul, um, you’re not, presently being given a cation or anything. I want you to understand that what you’re saying to us today is voluntary. That means that if you don’t want to talk to us, you don’t have to. Uh, your counsel is present and uh, if you need to speak to him you certainly can but I just want to make sure that you understand that what you say here is voluntary and uh, that we’re interviewing you as a potential witness. Do you understand that?

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Uh, just a little bit of background about the first time we met back last year in April 2006. Um, that was in regards to a letter that you had sent to general attorney’s office that filtered down to my office in regards to some admissions you had made about some sexual assaults you had committed. I am here to tell you that I have concluded that investigation and that um, there have been two offences that I have been able to identify and uh, with the information that you provided to me at that time was able to conclude those matters as having been committed by yourself. So, for that I thank you for that information, and…

Paul Bernardo: Um, sorry. You’ve identified [cross talk]

Detective Brad Hoover: Identified the offence. No, no, no, I identified the office you were talking about and uh, based on that information I was able to conclude those cases that, that actually provided enough information that I was satisfied that you were the person the committed those offenses.

Paul Bernardo: Okay. Now what about….

Detective Brad Hoover: That make sense?

Paul Bernardo: And that makes sense. What about ones that you thought that I came forward with and you thought I didn’t do? Was it any of those?

Detective Brad Hoover: There was none that I thought that you didn’t do. There was some that I didn’t have enough information to either identify the offence because, um, you were unable to provide enough details at that time or they may not have ever been reported to the police. Cause you said, when we spoke, some of them were, uh, wouldn’t call them minor offence but, uh…

Paul Bernardo: No, I understand.

Detective Brad Hoover: …offences that may not have been reported the police.

Paul Bernardo: Okay um, problem. Uh, I turned on the TV, waited for Peer Regional to come by. September rolls around, they say, make a public announcement, it’s written on my filed here that uh, that I lied to police and I did not commit the crimes that I said I committed and [inaudible] on Peel Regional. Big problem.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. I’ve spoken to Peel Region…

Paul Bernardo: Yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: …and they have told me that, uh, they don’t have enough information at this point to identify anything that you’ve, um, the letter that was sent to the police, to through the police, wasn’t specific enough to identify any offences. Now, that’s something we can talk about sort of following this interview. And if you want to get into that, we can talk about that.

Paul Bernardo:  Well, I’ve been sitting on this for years [inaudible]. It’s written in my file and it makes me seem like a loony. Just this crazy, you guys love doing that, I’m just this crazy psychopathic liar. Why was that statement an issue? Why didn’t they come in and talk to me if they didn’t have enough information? We were waiting…On that tape, you can play that tape back when I asked you guys if Peel Regional was going to come in. I sat there month after month after month, no one came. I turned on the TV in September, Peel Regional declared Paul Bernardo was, you know, this crazy liar to police. What, what, what’s is the fundamental problem here?

Detective Brad Hover: Well…

Paul Bernardo:  No, I mean, I guess that’s just the Canadian way and uh, and, and no one comes in and now you guys are saying you did not have enough information.

Detective Brad Hover: Well, I can’t answer for them specifically as to what they did or didn’t do. Um, I can tell you that, because they are a separate police department I don’t have control over what investigation that they did do. I can tell you I have spoken with the investigator in Peel Region and they have told me that at this point they do not have enough information to move forward. They haven’t been able to identify any offence that we specifically talked about.

Paul Bernardo:  That statement you’re giving to me is much different than the public statement that they said which is I’m a liar.

Detective Brad Hover: Okay. Well, I don’t, I don’t…

Paul Bernardo:  It’s night and day and they didn’t come in. If they didn’t have enough information, why don’t you come in and get the information? I mean, either I’m lying or I’m not lying, and this goes to the [inaudible] of this argument. Either I’m a liar to you and I’m going to lie to you about everything like I did to Peel Regional according to their story or I’m not. You know, I, I, I just, I just, I’m not going to sit here and come voluntarily, and people come, and you guys ban me from the press. You roll your stories over and you constantly say I’m a liar, I’m a liar. I made mistakes 17 years ago. 17, okay, fine, I did but, but now we’re talking about today and you’re not going to roll forward that I’m some psychopathic liar sitting in jail claiming other people’s responsibilities for other crimes. This is a total cross examination point. You want to start this thing? [inaudible] grab ahold of it. Say “well, you lied about other crimes, you know, he’s a crazy liar.” Why didn’t you guys resolve this?

Detective Brad Hover: And again, I can not answer for what Peel Region did or didn’t do. Um…

Detective Coulis: Jurisdictionally we are kind of bound as to what takes place [crosstalk]

Paul Bernardo:  Well, but still, the good guys and the bad guys. You know what I mean? You’re on the same team.

Detective Coulis: Yes, we are but as far as us inv, investigating matters outside of the actual Toronto Proper, um, that’s why Peel Regional has their police service and like Detective Hoover said, we can’t answer as to what they did with their investigations or the issues they were looking at or transpired out in their area and we really can’t speak to that. Now, whether that’s something you wish to have your counsel down the line then that’s sometime else…

Paul Bernardo: Yeah, that’s true.

Detective Coulis: But unfortunately, there’s, we, there wasn’t a lot Detective Hoover and I could do in regards to those things.

Paul Bernardo: Well, [inaudible] they should subpoena the guys from Peel Regional. They could bring in all the facts of where I lied, then, if I’m a liar. That’s what I say to do because either I’m a liar or I’m not a liar and I’m not a liar. But you guys are trying to paint me as one. The public, they, they turn on the TV in September of last year and I’m this crazy liar. Uh, that’s what the TV reported. Not only did they report it there, they wrote it on my file. I’ve got it [inaudible] myself. Paul Bernardo uh, Peel Regional says that Paul Bernardo lied about crimes he didn’t commit, said he did.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um…

Paul Bernardo:  I mean, this, this, that’s just awful. I mean, come on.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.

Paul Bernardo:  Enough manipulation. You know what I mean? Either I told the truth or otherwise the whole purpose of the interview is stupid because if I’m this crazy liar I would just be sitting here lying to you about everything, right? Right? I mean, why wouldn’t I? I’m just this crazy liar.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. And again, I don’t, I don’t know exactly what was said by Peel Regional and I’m not here to answer to what they said. Either [crosstalk]

Paul Bernardo:  You know, it’s, it’s one thing, you know, I’m a human being and, and to say that I’m a dangerous offender, raping and killing and all this stuff, it’s fine. I mean, free publicity deal, get that, tough on crime, get that bad guy. But when it gets to a certain point [inaudible] it just, it affects me totally. You know what I mean? I made mistakes. I made mistakes a long time ago. But don’t say that today about me because then we’re lying, and we have a big problem here because I’m looking at you and you’re the bad guys because I’m not doing anything wrong. I’m telling the truth and you guys are walking around issuing statements that I lied here, I lied there. No?

Detective Coulis: Well, those weren’t statements issued by Detective Hoover and myself or [crosstalk]

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah, I know but it’s the attorney general that sent you guys down here. He’s fighting this case. He’s taking this [inaudible] back, right? So, it’s, it’s, really all the, the same organization isn’t it? Attorney general I saw on TV talking about it.

Detective Coulis: But, but this is a separate matter from what those issues…

Paul Bernardo: But it’s still the General Attorney’s office. [laughs]

Detective Coulis: Yeah, it, it, may very well be but um, like I said I can’t speak to anything that Peel Regional does. Say for instance they release to the media because they have….

Paul Bernardo:  You know, it’s the same thing. If I’m a liar, take the facts that they have, they come down, they talk to me, any cross examine, any defense lawyer, call them up and show me where I’m lying because you’re not going to find it. Maybe there’s a minor mistake here or there because I think there’s one thing about some, tree, driveway, where the trees were, you know your memory gets a little fuzzy over time but to say that is just ridiculous. Its like you guys didn’t go, uh, you guys polygraph Karla yet? Ask her about it? Nobody from the General Attorney’s office go down there? Nobody cared? Again, it’s the same, I know, but it’s the same problem because you guys are making me out to be a huge liar and, and this is a huge liar and, and…

Detective Brad Hoover: Well, I don’t, I don’t have any doubt as to what you told us before. Ah, the facts that I can verify I believe were true and from what you’ve told me and you haven’t told me any lies yet so I don’t have any personal reason to believe you’re lying to me.

Paul Bernardo:  Exactly.

Detective Brad Hoover: So, again…

Paul Bernardo:  Exactly but this is a different story than what I have on my file and….

Detective Brad Hoover: And I don’t know what is in your file because I’m not privy to that information or what’s there or what’s not there. I’m just telling you from my perspective and from an investigator perspective, and to what I’ve looked into and to what admissions you made in April last year, to me, you know, I’m satisfied. I’ve done what I can do as far as the investigation. If Peel, if you would like to provide me with more information about the specific occurrences that occurred in Peel Region, then we can talk about that after the, uh, focus of what we are here for today.

Paul Bernardo:  But it is, it is part of the focus.

Detective Brad Hoover: It is and it isn’t. I mean, obviously directly we are here today to deal with the Baltovich matter that you’re aware of.

Paul Bernardo:  But dealing with me comes down to credibility.

Detective Brad Hoover: Comes down to credibility and absolutely it does and that’s, um, that’s what we’re here to talk about today. So, let’s, let’s deal with that and then we will deal with the other stuff afterwards. Is that okay?

Paul Bernardo:  Well, yeah. I was just making my point on it because it’s got to be addressed sometime.

Detective Brad Hoover: Absolutely. It will be.

Paul Bernardo:  Well, it should have been dealt with a year and a bit ago. So.

Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah.

Paul Bernardo:  Well, not quite a year, actually.

Detective Brad Hoover: A little over a year ago. Um, I have a few, some questions that were, um, that were given to me to ask you in relation to the, um, Baltovich matter, Robert Baltovich matter. Um, before we do that, I just want to say you obviously understand the importance of telling the truth and, and, um, the potential consequences of someone who lies to the police, um, and not telling the truth?

Paul Bernardo:  I think we’ve discovered that. Actually, I was referring you guys tell the truth.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right.

Paul Bernardo: [laughs]

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, so we’re aware of that.  And, um, in this matter I believe we’ve had some conversations with your counsel and, in regards to it and um, there has been some discussion about polygraph testing in this matter. Is that true or not true or do you recall that?

Paul Bernardo:  Wha… [laughs] you’re opening up cans of worms everywhere.

Detective Brad Hoover: No, I’m just asking you a specific question.

Paul Bernardo:  You know that goes back to you guys polygraph [inaudible]. You guys didn’t polygraph Karla and haven’t in the two years since. Have you guys gone down there and asked her? Have you settled that matter with it? Because you can say that I lied or whatever about a polygraph, but have you asked her? Because if, it comes down to a lot of that issue. I mean, have you asked her? General attorney [cross talk]

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, let me tell you a little bit. My involvement with this overall investigation of the Baltovich is very limited. Uh, the only knowledge that I have, as to what investigation has been done or hasn’t been done is related to the conversations I’ve had with this interview here today.

Paul Bernardo:  Okay.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, who or what other witnesses there are I don’t know.

Paul Bernardo:  An answer your question, an answer your question, I don’t want to go off on tangents, but all these issues are relevant. I know you don’t think they are, but they are. An answer to your question is we had some discussion on it but when [inaudible] and Peel PD came down before Karla was released I told them I would be willing to take a polygraph on anything and everything, would you in turn, are you going to go down before you release Karla, just to ask her. She’s not going to take it she’s going to fail on all these issues. [inaudible] blah blah blah.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right.

Paul Bernardo:  Did [inaudible] happen in July? Was the girl in January actually to kidnapped [inaudible]. Picked up somebody in the bar that she tried to [inaudible] roll over and all, all these other issues, all relevant. All relevant and, and, so then I addressed it to you guys when you came back again, uh, last year. I said “yeah, I’ll take a polygraph on anything because I’m not telling a lie on a thing”. Are you, have you, again I ask the question, have you guys gone down there? I mean, I know Karla’s free now. I’m not in the business of disciplinary [inaudible] it’s not my thing but my point was did you ask her the question just so we get the story straight. I mean, if she refuses, well, there’s, there’s a reason why she’s refusing. And again, you guys couldn’t provide an answer. And now almost a year later, and again you don’t provide an answer. So, I mean, you know, I don’t know what you’re asking me. You asking me to take a polygraph when you’re not willing to ask her?

Detective Brad Hoover: Well, again this, this, my part in this investigation is, is limited to what we’re seeing here today so, so the details of all of what other witnesses may or may not have been [inaudible] or done, I don’t know. And as a potential witness I’m not allowed to tell you what I’ve…

Paul Bernardo:  Well, yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: …done. So, that, I have to sort of be careful about the way that’s answered or even what you think my answer might be.

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah, no, I just, just wanted for the record that I gave you good information in which you guys could’ve, independent of me, could have verified my story or not.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.

Paul Bernardo: And whether you guys do or do not is not my business. Like I said I’m not a prosecutor.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right.

Paul Bernardo: I’m not here to point my finger at anyone but I showed you guys where to go so if you guys don’t do that it’s your business. But, you know, to me, it’s like, if you didn’t, why didn’t you if you guys want the truth about things?

Detective Brad Hoover: Right, so, I understand that. And I understand what you’re saying so, um, what we’re here to talk about today, uh, obviously you know that this statement uh, may be used in court or may be [inaudible] to court as a voluntary statement.

Paul Bernardo: Yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: A polygraph obviously is not uh, something that is court admissible. I’m not sure if you’re aware of that or not.

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah, I am.

Detective Brad Hoover: It’s not used in court. Okay, um, so the crux of what we’re here to talk about is it’s been suggested that, um, in the continuing investigation of Elizabeth Bain, and the charge of murder against Robert Baltovich, that you are the alternative suspect or an alternative suspect. Are you aware of that?

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah, yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, did you kill Elizabeth Bain on June 19 of 1990?

Paul Bernardo:  Well, that’s a loaded question. I mean, are we going to go back and, and, and go through the time sequence of what happened in my life? I mean, I could just give a yes or no answer, but you know, there’s a lot of issues about that.

Detective Brad Hover: Right.

Paul Bernardo:  You know Karla my [inaudible] who did what, where, when. This is why I said did you guys go down there to get a polygraph to see if she’s telling the truth about it. Why didn’t they do it in the first place? I mean, polygraphed everyone in the Camaro, why not make a deal with someone and not give them a polygraph. It’s incomprehensible to me. Now I’m sitting, my file says her version and it’s a lie. You know? You know what I mean?

Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah.

Paul Bernardo:  I, I, you know, I’m not making frivolous points. I mean, now you’re asking me, after you said, Peel Regional said I’m lying about this and then you’re saying I’m lying about my profile, you’re saying I’m lying about if I’m better or not. Now you’re saying, “hey did you kill this person?” Well you’re saying I’m lying here, here, here. I could say “no I didn’t” but I mean, you already said I lied here with Peel, you’re saying…

Detective Brad Hoover: No, I’m not saying, I’m not saying anything about who’s lying. I’m simply…

Paul Bernardo:  And I’ve given you directions to go find the truth. I’ve always done that.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right and I’ve, I’ve asked, again I’ve told you that I’ve done investigations on information that you’ve told me, and as a result of that information I’ve been able to verify. In my mind you’ve told me the truth. So, if Peel Regional is lying about you or someone else is lying about you, I have no control over that or know…

Paul Bernardo:  That goes right back to credibility.

Detective Brad Hoover: Well, absolutely it does and that’s, I guess, the, the easy way [inaudible] if we can go through, we answer the questions and yes, I hope to be able to go through some time line to identify where you were, what you were doing specifically in relation to this case.

Paul Bernardo:  Anyways, I know I’m giving you guys a hard time about some things, but I mean, really, I’m a human being and when you guys do all these things, I got to…anyways, I’ll try to [inaudible]. Anyways the answer to that is no but, the 800lb gorilla in the room, that’s a 25 to life sentence. You know? It really comes down to credibility.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right.

Paul Bernardo:  And not only credibility, timeline and between what Karla and my rules were respectively. The answer to that is no.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, did you have anything to do with her disappearance?

Paul Bernardo:  No.

Detective Brad Hoover: Did you know Elizabeth Bain?

Paul Bernardo:  Not that I know of.

Detective Brad Hoover: Had you ever met her?

Paul Bernardo:  I could answer that with a “I don’t remember” because if I did or if I didn’t, I don’t remember. I know an ex-girlfriend tried to say but like I said, I don’t remember.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Um, you are obviously aware of her disappearance…

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah, sort of.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, do you recall when you became aware of this?

Paul Bernardo: [sighs] Best that I can best recollect is after September. Didn’t follow the news much.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, the date, obviously, June the 19th , 1990 was [crosstalk]

Paul Bernardo:  But, but, but you know, other, other than that, I don’t remember. You know what I mean? I heard about it before, but I can’t recall…

Detective Brad Hoover: You can’t recall…

Paul Bernardo:  …if I did or not, but I remember in jail I had news papers after that fact. I saw something on that sort.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um, we’ll, we’ll sort of get into that in a little bit when we, uh, hope to go through a bit of a timeline with you as to some things that may jog your memory as to…

Paul Bernardo:  Now we’re talking.

Detective Brad Hoover: …um, back in that time. I mean, if you asked me what I was doing three weeks ago on Tuesday I probably couldn’t tell you unless you put some reference to it. So, we’ll hopefully be able to do that. Um, and again, obviously June the 19th, 1990, do you know what you were doing that day?

Paul Bernardo: [laughs] No, I have no idea.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, I, I have a document here in front of me that uh, references some points in time around this June of 1990 from police investigation. This is what um, indicates you may have been involved with or may have, certain things you may have done that… I’d like to go over a couple of them that um, sort of made, sort of assist you in remembering what you were doing back in 1990. Um, the first part of June, 1990, actually June the 1st, Karla had uh doctors appointment um, where she was complaining of pains in her right side. Um, perhaps she had something to do with a rabies shot. Does that ring any bells?

Paul Bernardo: Not at all.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Um. In the first part of June you had a Nissan 40SX. Is that correct?

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. You were making several trips into the United States. Uh, June 2nd, June 3rd, June 10th, June 16th . I think at that point you were involved with cigarette smuggling and things like that. From what I recall, someone said no.

Paul Bernardo:  That would be no. That wasn’t until after we moved out so.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Um, making a couple of trips to the States within a couple days, that, that’s something [crosstalk]

Paul Bernardo:  When we started the relationship, we were going over all the time so. Just for personal reasons though.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, on June the 16th you shopped at Ruff Hewn, is that, in the Niagara Falls United States, is, that store sound familiar to you?

Paul Bernardo:  Yes, it sounds familiar. I have no idea about those are the dates but…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.

Paul Bernardo: If you got a receipt for it…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, I think there must be a receipt there. And again, I don’t have all of the details. I’m just doing by what’s on this sheet of paper. Um, a black expandable binder, is that…

Paul Bernardo:  I think. I can’t recall one hundred percent but…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. That would have been around the same time. That was about a week prior to, if you purchased one of those, um, Elizabeth Bain going missing.

Paul Bernardo:  I have no idea when I purchased it. I just…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.

Paul Bernardo:  …recall I had something like that. Like an according binder type thing.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um, June, June the 16th, again that would be the same day, the same [inaudible] you attended a movie, um, Back to the Future 3. Do you recall when that movie came out?

Paul Bernardo: [laugh] No.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, there’s a receipt for a cell phone purchased at Radio Shack at the Town and Country Mall at 6366 Young Street. Remember buying a cellphone?

Paul Bernardo: Oh, you know, I bought a cellphone around that time because when I declared bankruptcy [inaudible], I bought the, the, Radio Shack one. I don’t know the dates…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, that would have been the day after Elizabeth Bain went missing. Uh, do you remember anything you were involved with around that time? You said you were going bankrupt so what type of activity were you involved in on a day to day basis?

Paul Bernardo: The only reason I remember bankruptcy is that happened uh, uh, around, a couple days before the, the, sexual assault type thing [inaudible]. If I recollect collectly, correctly, it was two days before I, I, filed for that. But I couldn’t even tell you that date, I just know it was sometime in… What, what date did you say that was? June the…

Detective Brad Hoover: June the, uh, 16th of 1990.

Paul Bernardo:  When was that sexual assault, uh the one with the [inaudible]. Was it 24th? 24th? What date do you guys have for that?

Detective Brad Hover: Um, there was one, there was a sexual assault in May of 1990.

Paul Bernardo:  Is that the [inaudible] one in [inaudible]?

Detective Brad Hoover: I think that it is but it doesn’t say that specifically here but shortly after that, um…

Paul Bernardo:  My timeline’s off.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, the end of June of 1990 that was the original, when someone identified you actually as the Scarborough rapist.

Paul Bernardo:  What? The end of…?

Detective Brad Hoover: That was the end of June 1990. Um, Laurie Homolka’s 19th birthday was June the 22nd of 1990. Do you recall her going to her birthday?

Paul Bernardo:  No, I know, I know it was around that time, but I don’t specifically recall that.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. The only reason [inaudible] people drinking [inaudible] perhaps. [inaudible]

Paul Bernardo: [shakes head “no”]

Detective Brad Hover: [inaudible]

Paul Bernardo: [inaudible] so.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um. June the 21st, so just, just a day after you bought the cell phone, um, you may have purchased…

Paul Bernardo: I’m sorry, you saying June 19th was this girl’s…

Detective Brad Hoover: June 19th was the day she went missing.

Paul Bernardo: What day did I buy that…

Detective Brad Hoover: June 20th was the day you bought the cell phone. Uh, June 24th

Paul Bernardo: See, I must, I must have filed bankruptcy around then because I got that cellphone [inaudible]. I had to hand my, all my, uh, items in, uh, to the trustee and I had a cell phone, so I went in and got a Radio Shack one. So, it would have been right around the same time. I don’t think I went a month without it. I don’t think so. I might have but I, but anyways, I don’t know. It was a while ago, so memories are fuzzy.

Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah. May the 29th, so that was just before that, or about a month before that, that was the day police released the commons.

Paul Bernardo: Oh, so it was May. [inaudible]

Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah, so that was, uh…

Paul Bernardo: See what happens when you lock a guy up for 15 years then bring this all up? [laughs] Memory gets fuzzy. So, I guess I waited a month to get the cellphone.

Detective Brad Hoover: About a month to get the cellphone. Do you recall anything, what you were, what you were doing during that month? Anything….

Paul Bernardo: Probably the same thing it says there. Going across the border, back and forth, recreational stuff. I know Tammy happened in July. Um, that was [inaudible] in July for the first time. But this was back a few months.

Detective Brad Hoover:  Okay, um…

Paul Bernardo: Maybe [inaudible]

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. So just prior to Tammy’s birthday there was some shopping at a Canadian tire store.

Paul Bernardo: Laurie’s birthday.

Detective Brad Hoover: Sorry, Laurie’s, uh, birthday. Um, two times in one day you went to a tire store on Sheppard avenue. 1019 Sheppard Avenue. [Bernardo shrugs signifying “I don’t know”] Do you normally shop at Canadian tire stores?

Paul Bernardo: Back then [inaudible]. That’s before all of these super centers and Wal-Marts and stuff [inaudible] so…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um, do you ever recall having any conversations um, about the disappearance of Elizabeth Bain?

Paul Bernardo: No.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. If I, if I played you, um, a short audio clip, um, it’s uh, conversation that you had, or conversation between Moore who was an investigator with the Toronto Police and Karla Homolka. I’m just going to play this. See if this, uh, sounds familiar or if it jogs your memory as to any conversation you may have had.

Karla Homolka: Um, I think the only thing he ever said about her was that her boyfriend did it or something like that but there wasn’t any real extensive discussion. But he talked about like all, all the women disappearing.

Detective Brad Hoover: And again, that, that was a conversation between, uh, investigator Tony Moore with Toronto Police Service and Karla Homolka. Does that conversation, does, that something you may recall saying that to Karla or talking about that?

Paul Bernardo: Well, you know, she went down with “Paul did it”. Catch phrase for the trial was “Paul did it, it was Paul” and this is, she’s continuing right there. She’s, you know, [inaudible]. The fact of the matter was I didn’t pay attention to any of it. I didn’t watch the news back then. I was too busy doing other things. I didn’t pay attention. The profile is “serial killer pays attention to the news and media, narcissistic personality blah blah blah” all that crap. I don’t know anything about this case now. I don’t know if this guy did it. I don’t even really care. I’m not the prosecutor, you know, do the right thing for society, blah blah blah.  I don’t know if he did it. I don’t know the facts behind if he did it and I certainly didn’t back then. So, to say that, for me to, she’s alleging that I made a statement “the boyfriend did it”. Well, you know, some cases I have followed because I am in jail and I have nothing to do but watch the TV. But I weigh the facts. You know, I take, you know, did OJ do it, for example.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right.

Paul Bernardo: You weigh the facts about whether he did or didn’t. He got out so that’s the law, but I would have to weigh the facts. I don’t know the facts of this circumstances so there’s no way I could make a statement such as that. How could I say he did it if I don’t know the facts of the case? So, no, she’s, she’s, she’s incorrect in her statement.

Detective Brad Hoover: And it may depend on when that conversation took place between her and that investigator.

Paul Bernardo: Well, Moore, wasn’t he back when that deal was made? Moore, I remember reading on transcripts [inaudible] from day one. When she signed her little twelve year deal, no polygraph required. Hey, [laughs] I’m giving you guys the truth here. You guys could prove me wrong, go down there, ask her, you’ll get a “no”, I keep telling you, no one does it. But um, I don’t know why. But you know, that sounds like a conversation, that’s what you do, pin it all on the other person, you know, you paint that scenario.  [inaudible]

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, do you, do you know of Robert Baltovich.

Paul Bernardo: I’ve seen him on, you know, [inaudible] T.V. or whatever. Like I said, I purposely avoided this case.

Detective Brad Hover: Alright.

Paul Bernardo: I don’t, I don’t like up, this shit on my mind. You know what I mean? Needing to, you know…Unfortunately when Karla came on I watched to sort of discern truth from fiction a couple years ago but otherwise I don’t like to get into these things. I have had a hundred lifetimes of this stuff. You know, so, and I don’t want my mind poisoned with this and this and this. So, this case I avoided as much as possible, but I have seen his face on the T.V.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right. Anything else you would like to tell us about this investigation?

Paul Bernardo: No.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay the time now is uh 2:35 and we’ll conclude this portion of the interview.




Case Summary Uncategorized

Lamora Williams Case Summary

In 2017, Lamora Williams was a 24-year-old newly single mother of 4 children. Sometime between the midnight of October 12th and 11 p.m. on October 13th, she is accused of having placed her two youngest children in an oven and turning it on.

According to Williams’s family, she has always been troubled, and it was only made worse by the children’s father leaving them and possibly postpartum depression. LamoraWilliams’s sister, Tabitha Hollingsworth, noted that the behavioral and emotional problems started young and recalled Williams attempting suicide. Brenda Williams, Lamora Williams’s mother, said that she was a slow learner to the extent that she had to be pulled out of public school to be homeschooled.

At 18 years old she had her first child, a daughter. Her daughter’s father’s family helped Williams. After this relationship failed, she got into a long-term relationship with Jameel Penn Sr. and had 3 children with him. In 2017 when Williams was 24, Jameel Penn Sr. left Williams and her children, but still assisted her with the children and finances. Penn and young sonsWhen Penn broke it off with Williams, Williams’s mother told Penn that “something tragic was going to happen to those kids, she’s going to do something to herself”. Williams’s mother also tried to get custody of Williams’s children or otherwise have them removed from Williams’s care after Williams’s father’s death. In a call to the Division of Family and Children Services, Williams’s mother expressed concern about her daughter’s mental health and was worried that she was not feeding her children. This concern is backed up by Williams’s sister stating that Williams regularly left the toddler children alone.

On the evening of October 13th, Williams’s close friend Neesa Smith received a call where Williams was in obvious distress. When Smith asked Williams what was wrong, Williams simply stated she couldn’t do it anymore. She went on to tell Smith that her two youngest children, 1 year old Ja’Karter and 2 year old Ke-Yaunte, were dead. Smith pushed for Williams to call the police. Instead of calling the police, Williams next video called the children’s father, Jameel Penn. During the call, Williams panned her camera around her apartment and Penn saw his sons on the floor. He then promptly called the police.

At 11:30p.m., Williams also called the police. In the 911 call, Williams claimed she left Lamora Childrenher children with her cousin (then changed it to sister) and found her children dead when she returned home from work. She stated that one child was trapped underneath a “pulled over” oven, both burned, and claimed there were “brains on the floor”.  During the same 911 call, Williams showed great worry over going to jail and asked the dispatcher to reassure her about the possibility of going to jail. The 911 call transcript can be found here.

Police, fire and ambulance arrived at the scene and the two youngest children’s burned bodies were found. Williams’s 3-year-old son, Jameel Penn Jr. was also found unharmed inside of the residence. Williams first child was with other family members during the event. Detectives did not believe Williams’s story and she was arrested.

Some of the charges Williams faces includes felony murder, aggravated assault, cruelty Lamora Mugshotto children in the first degree, cruelty to children in the second degree and making a false statement. Prosecutors believe that Williams may have burnt her two youngest children in an attempt to conceal how she murdered them. Williams pleaded not guilty to the charges. In the aftermath, Williams’s sister expressed concern and stated that Williams should be placed on suicide watch in the jail. Williams’s mother holds her daughter accountable for her actions  while still recognizing that she had problems. She has stated that she may need to seek help herself after losing her “two youngest grand kids because of the actions of her daughter” and that it has been very difficult.

9-1-1 Transcripts Uncategorized

Lamora Williams 911 Transcript

Sometime between the midnight of October 12th and 11 p.m. on October 13th in 2017, Lamora Williams is accused of having placed her two youngest children in an oven and turning it on in her apartment in Atlanta Georgia. In the 911 call she placed, she said that she had left her child with a family member while she was at work. When she returned home, her children were dead, one stuck under an oven, both burned, and claimed there were “brains laid out on the floor”. Her family reports that she had long standing untreated mental illness and detectives did not believe her story. She was charged with her children’s murders. A case summary can be found here. 


Lamora Williams 911 Transcript

Dispatcher: Atlanta 911, Operator 7054, what’s the address of your emergency?

Lamora Williams: Yes. Ma’am, Ma’am, I have a question, and this is a serious matter. Um, I just left, um, my cousin in the house with my kids. Um, she just left my kids in the house when I came back from work,

Dispatcher: Mm-hm

Lamora Williams: and my kids, two of my kids are dead. What am I, what am I, what do I gotta do? They’re dead. She left them dead in the house by theyselves.

Dispatcher: Okay, ma’am, where are you now?

Lamora Williams: I’m in my house. She left my door open. My baby boy, my oldest baby boy is the only one that’s here and only one that’s alive. She left, she left them, she left them in the house by theyselves. She left them in here, and they’re not…

Dispatcher: Okay, hold…

Lamora Williams: Can you listen? When I came in, the stove was layin’ on my son, my youngest son’s head, and my other son was laid out on the floor with his brains laid out on the floor. I don’t know what to do, I just came home from work to this.

Dispatcher: Okay.

Lamora Williams: My baby’s dead.

Dispatcher: Okay, ma’am, I’m gon-gonna get EMS and I’m going to get, um, police and fire at the location. Can you tell me where you’re located?

Lamora Williams: Um, um, um ma’am I can’t even talk. This is so serious. I’m so scared. I don’t want to get locked up, because I was there at work.

Dispatcher: Okay, ma’am [cross talk]

Lamora Williams: I don’t [cross talk]

Dispatcher: I completely understand that you’re scared. I completely understand but I need to get some help out there to you now. Can you tell me where you’re located?

Lamora Williams: I understand that, but please, can you please help me, like, can you please tell me, like, I don’t want to get locked up because this is not my fault. I had just came home from work. I just came home from work.

Dispatcher: Yes, ma’am.

Lamora Williams: I just came home from work.

Dispatcher: Okay, ma’am. The first thing that I need to do is get some help out there to you. I understand that you’re upset and scared.

Lamora Williams: They’ve been here dead. Like, it’s, it’s not, it’s aint no way in the fuck she left my babies dead…

Dispatcher: Okay.

Lamora Williams: …and I don’t have no way to reach her.

Dispatcher: Okay. If you, if you’re not sure, [cross talk] if you were at work, ma’am, listen to me. If you were at work while this happened, then the responsibility is going to fall on your sister. That’s who you left them with. Okay? But where are you [cross talk], can you tell me where you are? Where are you located now? Where are you?

Lamora Williams: I’m located in 979 Howell Place.

Dispatcher: Okay, hold on one moment because I’m also going to get EMS on the line as well, okay?

Lamora Williams: Yes, please.

Dispatcher: Hold on one moment. Yes, ma’am. stay on the line with me though, okay? Hold on one moment with me.

[beep, ringing, shuffling]

Lamora Williams: Okay.

EMS: EMS, what’s the address of the emergency?

Dispatcher: EMS, the call is at 979 Howell Place, Southwest. That’s 979 Howell Place Southwest.

EMS: Alright ma’am, what’s the phone number you’re calling from?

Lamora Williams: 404 [edited] 33

EMS: Okay. Tell me exactly what happened.

Lamora Williams: When I just came home from work, my babies were stuck in the stove dead, and I just came home from work.

EMS: Wait, wait, ma’am.

Lamora Williams: My sister was babysitting my kids and left my kids dead in the house, aint no tellin’ how long they been in this house.

EMS: Alright, wait, are you, is there, is there, is your son obviously dead? Is he breathing at all? Can you tell if he’s breathing?

Lamora Williams: He’s dead, he’s burnt. Both of my children are dead. Their head is burnt, they, the stove is laying on this floor. The stove, one of my babies is stuck. The stove is pulled over and everything.

EMS: Alright [inaudible], can we get PD and fire to this location? I’m operator 839

Dispatcher: Yes, we have PD and fire already en route to that location. I’m 7054.

EMS: Alright, thank you so much.

Lamora Williams: Please help me, please!

EMS: Alright ma’am, I’m en route. Okay?

Lamora Williams: Alright, thank you so much.

Case Summary Uncategorized

Debra Jeter Case Summary

On June 5, 2009, 32-year-old Debra Jeter slit the throats of both of her daughters in an abandoned house off of Interstate 77 in Hillsboro, Texas. Warning signs dated back several years. In 2004, authorities determined that Debra Jeter was physically abusing her older daughter, Kiersten, but the case was dropped after Debra Jeter received mental health treatment.

For reasons not disclosed, in May 2009, Lester Lee Jeter filed court documents to separate from his wife, Debra. Taking the separation badly, on May 22 Debra Jeter attempted suicide by consuming pills in front of her two daughters she had with Lester Jeter. Debra was temporarily institutionalized in a mental health facility. The day after the suicide attempt while Debra was still inpatient, Lester Lee Jeter filed for divorce, obtained a debra-jeter-2temporary restraining order, and was given temporary custody of his two children. In court documents, Lester Lee Jeter stated that “she may be released within a few days, and I am concerned about her possible actions regarding the children” and that he was requesting custody “to protect the safety and well-being of the children and any other person who has been a victim of family violence committed by Jeter”. The day after her release, though, a judge lifted the restraining order and allowed for unsupervised visitation during a hearing. The first court ordered visitation was set for that Friday, June 5th, 2009.

After not seeing their mother for 15 days, 12-year-old Kelsey and 13-year-old Kiersten kelsey-jeterwere excited to see their mother with Kelsey posting on her MySpace page “I GET TO SEE MY MOM TOMMORROW!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!”. Debra Jeter told Lester Lee Jeter that she had a surprise for the girls and was taking them out.

After picking up her daughters in the afternoon, Debra drove them to an abandoned house off Interstate 77 just past highway 35 towards Milford. Debra Jeter first attacked Kiersten with a knife. While fending off her mother, Kiersten screamed for her sister to run. This caused Debra to turn her attention from Kiersten and onto Kelsey. Kiersten was stabbed in the back while trying to protect her sister. Unfortunately, these attempts were unsuccessful, and Debra slit Kelsey’s throat and she died in the bathroom of the abandoned house. Debra returned to Kiersten and cut her from one side of the neck to the other, severing her airway and one of her main arteries.

Despite her severe injuries, she stayed alive and conscious and pleaded with her mother debra-jeter-3to get help. Three hours after picking up her children, Debra Jeter called police to report the crime saying, “I just killed my children”. Even though Debra Jeter was a nursing student, she did not tend to her daughter, instead walked around the abandoned house urging the ambulance to hurry up stating that her daughter that survived is “asking to be saved and she couldn’t handle it”. She also went on to ask the dispatcher to ask the police not to shoot her as she didn’t have a gun. The complete transcript can be read here.

Sadly, the sweet quiet book-loving Kelsey did not survive the attack. Kiersten was air lifted for immediate emergency surgery after being found in the bedroom of the debra-jeter-1abandoned house and survived. Debra’s explanation for her heinous actions was that she was “heartbroken” over the separation and the child custody battle. Her ex-husband, Lester Lee Jeter stated that Debra “figured if she felt that way, then we all must feel that way and she wanted to take away all of our pain”.  After accepting a plea deal where she pleaded guilty to capital murder and attempted capital murder on May 27, 2010, Debra Jeter was sentenced to life without parole. The plea deal avoided the possibility of the death sentence and spared her surviving daughter from having to testify in court.