Jah’Sean Hodge Case Summary

On May 5th, 2020, 9-year-old Jadalee Pagan was brutally attacked by a family friend, Jah’Sean Hodge in Saint Cloud, Florida. Jadalee’s mother, Veronica Snyder, calls Jah’Sean Hodge Jadalee’s uncle, although there is no relation. Minutes after the attack, police made contact with Jah’Sean Hodge where he refused to obey orders to stop, shouted to shoot him multiple times, and rushed an officer who ended up shooting and killing him as he tried to retreat after the taser proved ineffective. While Jadalee Pagan was still too injured to speak while in the children’s ICU, her mother spoke to news stations and said that police had shot the wrong person. She stated that Jah’Sean Hodge was attempting to protect Jadalee from an unseen intruder and was injured during the incident. She continued by saying that “he saved his niece’s life” and that he was a hero.

This response led to a public outcry despite all evidence pointing to Jah’Sean as the only perpetrator in the attack. When Jadalee became well enough to speak, she named Jah’Sean and only Jah’Sean as her attacker while still in the ICU. After this, Jadalee’s mother changed her opinion and made a statement saying “we finally got answers, and I have a lot to accept, but I just want to say that St. Cloud Police Department did their job. Let’s just not make this any worse than it is”.

Additionally, DNA evidence from the knife and barbell used to stab and bludgeon Jadalee, blood on Jah’Sean’s shirt, and skin under Jadalee’s fingernails all pointed to Jah’Sean being the only attacker. Jadalee has survived the attack and has recovered well.

Background Information

Jadalee Pagan

Jadalee did not grow up with her mom, Veronica Snyder, since she was incarcerated in 2012 shortly after Jadalee was born. She was released in September of 2018. Even at the time of the incident, Veronica Snyder typically stayed in her boyfriend’s apartment downstairs while her two children, mother, and brother lived in the upstairs apartment. Jah’Sean Hodge, who Veronica Snyder calls her brother, though is of no blood relation, did not live upstairs with Jadalee but did stay there sometimes according to Veronica’s mother. He was a close friend of the family.

Attempted Murder

On May 5th, 2020, Veronica’s mother left to go to Walmart with Veronica’s brother, who was dropping her off there. Before she left the house, 21-year-old Jah’Sean took a shower, and was last seen on the floor by the TV with 9-year-old Jadalee. They both were on their phones. As far as Veronica’s mother could tell, everything was normal, including Jah’Sean’s behavior. Minutes after she left, Veronica’s boyfriend heard a scream from upstairs while in his downstairs apartment. Hearing a commotion wasn’t unusual living in an apartment building that housed several children. Veronica’s boyfriend jokingly said, “who screams like that?”, to which he was told that it was probably Jadalee mad at a game. After walking to his kitchen, he heard a second scream that sounded aggressive and like a man “in rage”. From the downstairs apartment with her boyfriend, Veronica then heard Jah’Sean say “Oh my God” while running down the stairs. Upon looking out the window, she witnessed him running south down their road.

Location of Incident

Veronica and her boyfriend ran up to the upstairs apartment to investigate the noises and found Jadalee covered in blood on the living room floor. Veronica’s boyfriend told a neighbor to call 911 and also called himself. His call came into emergency dispatchers first at 12:43 P.M., and the neighbor’s call came in less than a minute afterwards, about 10 or 15 minutes after Veronica’s mother left to go to Wal-Mart. On Veronica’s boyfriend’s 911 call he can be heard pleading for an ambulance and states that he is not sure what happened but that the child is bleeding from her head and needs immediate help. On the neighbor’s 911 call, the neighbor went upstairs to the apartment and relayed to dispatchers that there was a knife involved. As Veronica’s brother was nearing the apartment building after dropping off their mother at Wal-Mart, he receives a call from Veronica telling him that Jadalee is bleeding. When he arrived, he saw Veronica holding Jadalee’s bloody body, took her from Veronica, and loaded her into the car to go to the hospital.  On the way to the hospital, the car used to transport Veronica and Jadalee was stopped by police where Saint Cloud Police Department first got confirmation that Jadalee had definitely been stabbed and was bleeding profusely from her neck.

When they arrived at Saint Cloud Regional Medical Center, a patient access employee heard Veronica and her brother yelling for help saying that Jadalee had been stabbed. A paramedic who was doing screenings for COVID 19 outside of the hospital’s emergency department transported Jadalee from the vehicle into the hospital and noted that blood was “bubbling” out of Jadalee’s neck and overheard Veronica and her mother talking about an “uncle” that wasn’t related to them possibly being responsible. Once inside the hospital, a nurse heard Veronica’s mother state “you know he was going to do this” to Veronica, but who she was talking about was not said. Because of the severity of Jadalee’s injuries, she was transported to Arnold Palmer Hospital and was admitted into the children’s ICU. There, she continued to receive treatment and surgeries for her injuries, and it was noted that a “J” was carved into her forehead. Veronica was not able to stay with Jadalee because of COVID 19 precautions. Instead, she made appearances on local news where she said that Jah’Sean was actually a victim of the attack by an unknown perpetrator and was running erratically covered in blood trying to find the person who attacked him and Jadalee.

Jah’Sean Hodge

When police went to the house where the incident happened, they found blood on the main door to the apartment building, the stairs and wall leading up to the apartment, both sides of the apartment door, on the carpet in front of and further back from the television in the living room, and on the door of one of the bedrooms. Inside of the kitchen sink was a bloody knife with the blade broken from the handle and in the bedroom with the bloody door, blood was found on a barbell with weights on both sides. Veronica’s boyfriend said the knife was originally near Jadalee on the floor where the blood stains were, but he moved it to the sink when it was almost stepped on.

On May 8th police began to try to interview Jadalee while she was still in the children’s ICU. Interviewing her took many attempts because she would often get upset, not respond, or become confused. In one attempt she was asked if she knew how she got hurt and she said she did not know. When asked if she remembers being at her house, she said that she had a dream where Jah’Sean stabbed her. She then goes on to ask for them not to be brought there. During another interview with Jadalee in the children’s ICU, Jadalee named Jah’Sean as the only perpetrator multiple times and said “I stood up to say ‘hi’ and then I said ‘why do you have that knife in your hand?’” to which he responded “it was you” before stabbing her. She also stated that he choked her while “killing her”.

Jah’Sean’s Movements After the Attack and Police Shooting

After Jah’Sean left the apartment, he jogged south on the apartment’s street and about a block away he passed two teenagers on a golf cart who called 911 because he was bleeding and acting strangely. During police interview they stated that at one point he looked like he was on the opposite side of the street and may come out into the middle of the street and tapped his fingers together like he may be attempting to get their attention but then went back to the other side of the road and continued to run. They made eye contact with Jah’Sean but he never said anything. In their 911 call they noted that he had blood on his hands, chest, and head. Behind them was a U-Haul driver that also passed Jah’Sean but he didn’t make an attempt to flag them down either. Shortly afterwards a 12-year-old child saw Jah’Sean who pointed in his direction and yelled to “get back in the house”.

Jah’Sean Hodge’s Movements

Jah’Sean continued south until he reached the driveway of a person he did not know and laid face down in their driveway. A neighbor saw this and asked Jah’Sean if he was okay and he said “yes”. This neighbor went inside before coming back out 10 seconds later to see Jah’Sean running north towards O P Johnson Park, before jumping a fence on the corner of a block about two and a half blocks from the apartment. Here, he opened a camper door of a person he did not know and went inside before jumping the fence into another person’s yard where he removed his shirt inside of their screened in pool area. He then ran across the street from this house before police make contact with him while he’s in their front yard, shirtless and covered in blood. He first approached Officer Fertic who was on the passenger side of the patrol vehicle. Officer Fertic repeatedly ordered Jah’Sean to stop and pulled out his taser. Jah’Sean responded by saying “shoot me then” and continued to approach him. Officer Dunn stepped out of the driver side door and pulled out his firearm. Jah’Sean then abruptly changed his focus and rushed Officer Dunn. The taser was deployed without any effect, Officer Dunn attempted to retreat, then fired his firearm 4 times, killing Jah’Sean Hodge. The officers performed CPR until EMTs arrived.

Evidence

As a result of canvassing a two-block radius of the attack, police recovered several pieces of evidence along with witness accounts. Many witness statements were taken, none of which showed anyone running in front of Jah’Sean or anyone leaving the apartment building besides Jah’Sean. Surveillance video also showed Jah’Sean jogging down the street, not chasing anyone. At one point, a police officer saw someone matching Jah’Sean’s description jogging down the road before losing sight of him.

Bloody Barbell in Apartment

Witnesses heard banging and noises that were recognized as weights being dropped and clanked together. The bloody barbell found in a bedroom in the upstairs apartment not only tested positive for Jah’Sean and Jadalee’s blood and no one elses, Jah’Sean’s bloody fingerprint was left on it. The knife blade and handle found at the crime scene tested positive for Jadalee and Jah’Sean’s blood and no one else. Similarly, the shirt Jah’Sean removed in a neighbor’s screened in pool area only had his and Jadalee’s blood. Jah’Sean’s DNA was also found under Jadalee’s fingernails. There was no evidence or DNA from a third party.

Knife Used in Attack

Upon autopsy, it was found that Jah’Sean Hodge had 14 stab wounds, most being on the left side and superficial, consistent with being self-inflicted. This is collaborated with text messages recovered from his phone that indicated that he attempted to kill himself at or around the time of the attack. Three of the stab wounds were more substantial, with one nicking a lung, another piercing his chest wall, and one cutting through his pinky to the bone. Toxicology only showed cannabinoids in his system.

Conflicting Stories

Complicating this tragic case was the inconsistencies in stories. These inconsistencies fueled theories that led to the public outcry. For example, according to statements made to police, Jah’Sean’s behavior was normal when he was last seen with Jadalee directly before the incident. In one of these statements Veronica’s mother said that Jah’Sean had taken a shower, was laying on the floor near Jadalee in front of the TV, and was acting normally. Contrary to what was said in police statements, Veronica said to a doctor at Saint Cloud Regional Medical Center that she witnessed Jah’Sean “acting crazy and running around the house”. What Veronica saw and heard during the incident has also been inconsistent. In a police interview, Veronica told police that she went downstairs to have a cigarette after her mother and brother went to Wal-Mart. Minutes later she heard him run down the stairs saying “oh my God” then saw him through the downstairs apartment window running south on their street.

Jadalee Pagan’s Birthday

When another officer was driving Veronica to Arnold Palmer Hospital she made and received several calls. In one of the calls she told the person on the other end that she passed Jah’Sean on the stairs while she ran upstairs from the downstairs apartment and noticed blood on his hands. On another call made during the car ride she said that she had seen him “chasing the guy that had hurt Jada”, though she didn’t see anyone he was chasing. While at Saint Cloud Regional Medical Center, Veronica told a patient access employee that she was laying in her bed in the downstairs apartment when she heard screaming coming from upstairs and this time she also said that Jah’Sean passed her on the stairs. When she told the patient access employee, she specifically said he said nothing to her.  To the patient registration coordinator, she said that she was gardening outside when she heard a scream and that she saw Jah’Sean running from the house, bloody. This also contradicts her boyfriend’s statement which said she was in his apartment with him. The next time she spoke to the patient registration coordinator, she said that she didn’t see anything and that she thought he was chasing after someone. The patient registration coordinator stated that at this time she stopped asking Veronica questions because she felt that her “story was changing every time they spoke about it”.

Through these statements and high emotions, a third-party attacker theory developed. A rumor began that someone had run through the back yard and was possibly involved. This was ruled out after police interviewed a neighbor who was watering their flowers in the back yard of the apartment building during the incident. This neighbor stated that they heard what they thought was kids jumping around before Veronica began screaming for help. They stated they never saw anyone in the back yard of the apartment building and that the back yard can not be accessed through the common area of the house.

Although the mother’s of both Jadalee and Jah’Sean speculated publicly that Jah’Sean was actually a victim of the attack and was behaving strangely because he was wounded and trying to find the attacker, statements made by Veronica and others show that even those closest to the situation suspected Jah’Sean from the beginning. An example of this would be the statement reported by the paramedic doing COVID 19 screenings at Saint Cloud Regional Medical Center where Veronica and her mother were suspecting Jah’Sean was responsible for the attack immediately after getting to the hospital. Still, statements to news outlets continued to be made until Veronica heard Jadalee tell investigators that Jah’Sean was the culprit numerous times, and DNA evidence showed only Jah’Sean’s DNA. In the end, Veronica spoke to the media again and expressed that she struggled to believe that Jah’Sean was the attacker because of his relationship with the family, but she conclusively knows who did it now, though she will never know why.

Jah’Sean Hodge Case 911 Transcript – Neighbor

On May 5th, 2020 Veronica Snyder found her 9-year-old daughter, Jadalee Pagan, with multiple life-threatening injuries after being left alone with a family friend, Jah’Sean Hodge. Jah’Sean was bloody and wounded when seen running away from the apartment and did not stop to tell anyone that Jadalee was injured or how he was hurt. Jadalee had sustained stab wounds to her face and neck including a 12-centimeter gash across her throat penetrating through the muscle and trachea, along with temporal, orbital, and sinus cavity fractures. While Veronica tended to her daughter and brought her to the hospital with Jadalee’s uncle, Jah’Sean exhibited strange behavior before being contacted by police where he yelled at them to shoot him while running towards them failing to obey commands. He was shot and died as a result of those injuries. The following is a transcript of the 911 call placed by the neighbor of Veronica Snyder and Jadalee Pagan.

Dispatcher: Saint Cloud Police Department [inaudible] how can we help you?

Witness: I need an am… Yeah, we need an ambulance right now.

Dispatcher: What’s the address? What is the address?

Witness: Um, [censored]

Dispatcher: Okay, so stay on the line with me, um, I just, I have some questions for you while we get them on the way. What is the number you are calling from?

Witness: Uh, [censored] going on, I, I’m not exactly sure what’s going on.

Dispatcher: Okay, just repeat that phone number for me in case we get disconnected.

Witness: [censored]

Dispatcher: I’m sorry, I can’t hear [inaudible], just the last four.

[background yelling]

Dispatcher: The last four of the phone number ma’am.

Witness: [censored]

Dispatcher: Tell me exactly what happened.

Witness: Uh, I don’t know. Something happened with my neighbor’s child.

Dispatcher: Did she fall? Did they fall? I think we are getting another call on it as well.

Witness: I’m, I’m, I’m really not sure. I really don’t know.

Dispatcher: Okay, okay. Is, is there any way we could take the phone and, and, to get closer to find out what happened?

Witness: I just know that there was a knife involved. I think one of the kids were left alone and…

Dispatcher: Okay, do we know how old the patient is? How old the child is?

Witness: Uh, she’s like 9 or 10?

[background yelling]

Dispatcher: Okay, stay on the phone with me. We’re getting help on the way, okay? This isn’t delaying them. Can you tell me, is she still awake?

Witness: Yeah. They’re going to the hospital now. [inaudible] they…

Dispatcher: Okay, and let them know that that’s not the safest thing to do they need to. They need to, I want them to know that help is not far away, okay?

Witness: Okay.

Dispatcher: Can you let them know that we’re sending help and to, to, to stay with you? To stay there? Can you tell me, is the child awake?

Witness: They’re, they’re in the car already.

Dispatcher: In the car. Tell me what kind of car it is.

Witness: Uh, it’s a, a, it’s uh, fuckin’, silver car. They’re, they’re already gone. I don’t, I don’t remember the car.

Dispatcher: Okay, a silver vehicle, which way did they go? They left with the child in the car. The back roads.

Witness: They’re going to the Lakefront.

Dispatcher: I’m sorry, towards the Lakefront?

Witness: They’re going to the hospital.

Dispatcher: Do you know which hospital they’re going to?

Witness: Saint Cloud Hospital.

Dispatcher: They’re going to Saint Cloud, okay. Okay, so the, the, the child is not, is no longer there. And it occurred at this 36 Georgia Avenue? That’s where the child was at?

Witness: Yeah.

Dispatcher: Okay. Do you have any [inaudible] or uh, contact information for the parents or whoever is with the child?

Witness: Uh, I don’t rem…, I don’t know, I don’t have her number right now.

Dispatcher: Okay.

[censored]

Dispatcher: Alright, what is, [inaudible] can you tell me anything about what they told you happened or… what [cross-talk]

Witness: Just she was left alone. The little girl was left alone for like five minutes and I think she got ahold of something, I’m not sure.

Dispatcher: Okay.

Witness: But they took her to the hospital already. There’s an officer here now.

Dispatcher: Okay. Go ahead and talk to him.

Witness: Thank you. Okay.

Dispatcher: Alright, thank you so much.

Jah’Sean Hodge Case 911 Transcript – Passerby

On May 5th, 2020 Veronica Snyder found her 9-year-old daughter, Jadalee Pagan, with multiple life-threatening injuries after being left alone with a family friend, Jah’Sean Hodge. Jah’Sean was bloody and wounded when seen running away from the apartment and did not stop to tell anyone that Jadalee was injured or how he was hurt. Jadalee had sustained stab wounds to her face and neck including a 12-centimeter gash across her throat penetrating through the muscle and trachea, along with temporal, orbital, and sinus cavity fractures. While Veronica tended to her daughter and brought her to the hospital with Jadalee’s uncle, Jah’Sean exhibited strange behavior before being contacted by police where he yelled at them to shoot him while running towards them failing to obey commands. He was shot and died as a result of those injuries. The following is a transcript of the 911 call placed by a passerby riding a golf cart while Jah’Sean was walking down Georgia Avenue after the incident.

Dispatcher: [inaudible] how may I help you?

Witness: Hello, we were, um, driving down Georgia and we seen this guy covered in blood on his hands, his chest and head and… and he was like flopping his arms around. Like, he was really injured but he like, tried to stop us, but he didn’t.

Dispatcher: Okay, how long ago was that?

Witness: Not even ten minutes ago.

Dispatcher: Okay, where at on Georgia?

Witness: Georgia and 3rd.

Dispatcher: Okay. We actually have officers that are in that area right now and he was on Georgia Avenue by 3rd street?

Witness: Yes.

Dispatcher: Okay, when did he…[cross-talk]

Witness: He was running up towards 10th.

Dispatcher: He was going towards 10th. What did he, uh, what was he wearing?

Witness: Wear a black shirt and black, uh, basketball shorts, and a, I think, black shoes.

Dispatcher: Okay, we’ll update the officers just to make sure that that’s the description of the person they’re out with, but they are there in the area with a similar person.

Witness: Okay, thank you.

Dispatcher: Thank you.

Jah’Sean Hodge Case 911 Transcript – Victim’s Mother’s Boyfriend

On May 5th, 2020 Veronica Snyder found her 9-year-old daughter, Jadalee Pagan, with multiple life-threatening injuries after being left alone with a family friend, Jah’Sean Hodge. Jah’Sean was bloody and wounded when seen running away from the apartment and did not stop to tell anyone that Jadalee was injured or how he was hurt. Jadalee had sustained stab wounds to her face and neck including a 12-centimeter gash across her throat penetrating through the muscle and trachea, along with temporal, orbital, and sinus cavity fractures. While Veronica tended to her daughter and brought her to the hospital with Jadalee’s uncle, Jah’Sean exhibited strange behavior before being contacted by police where he yelled at them to shoot him while running towards them failing to obey commands. He was shot and died as a result of those injuries. The following is a transcript of the 911 call placed by Veronica’s boyfriend at the time of the crime.  

Dispatcher: 911, what’s the address of the emergency?

Witness: I need a, I need a, emergency [inaudible] as soon as possible.

Dispatcher: What is the address?

Witness: [inaudible] on [censored]

Dispatcher: Repeat that once for me.

Witness: Thirty [censored]

Dispatcher: Ok, what is the phone number your calling from?

Witness: [censored] 66.

Dispatcher: ok, tell me exactly what happened.

Witness: We don’t know. All I know is, um, my girlfriend’s, um, daughter needs an ambulance soon [inaudible]. She’s bleeding from her head and she was upstairs by herself.

Dispatcher: Ok. Just stay on the line with me, we’re going get some [inaudible]. I just need gather some information for the responders, okay?

Witness: [inaudible]

[Yelling in background]

Dispatcher: I just, I just want to confirm, you said she’s bleeding from her head but do we know… why, what happened?

Witness: Yeah, [inaudible] her head. I need a ambulance as soon as possible. Just send somebody, please!

Dispatcher:  Okay, my partners are already dispatching help. Just give me one moment.

[inaudible female crying]

Dispatcher: Is there someone else up on the line with… us?

Witness: Yes, somebody is, um, yea, [inaudible stammering]. I just need someone here as soon as possible, can you just send somebody, please?

Dispatcher: Okay, I understand we already have called [cross-talk]

Witness: Just send an ambulance…

Dispatcher: Sir, I already have the call in but I’m just confirming someone else is already on the line with 911.

[background noises]

Dispatcher: Hello?

[background noise, female voice]

Witness: [inaudible] that’s it.

Dispatcher:  Ok

[background noises and yelling]

Dispatcher: Okay, we are already getting someone sent out.  We do have police on the way as well, okay?

[background yelling]

Witness: Uh, uh, um,

Female voice: That’s far away…

Witness: [inaudible] taking to the hospital.

[female yelling]

Witness: Alright.

[female yelling]

Dispatcher: Okay. We already, we already have people on the way, and we, my partners already got information from someone who’s on the phone. Okay?

[female screaming]

Dispatcher: Hello?

Witness: Yeah, I hear you.

Dispatcher: Okay.

Female voice: … a place to go.

Dispatcher: Okay, is the, is the patient still there?

Witness: She’s going to the hospital.

Dispatcher: They’re going to the hospital?

Witness: They’re going to hospital right now.

Dispatcher: Okay.

Witness: Yeah. Her uncle just came back from [inaudible], he left for a minute and…

Dispatcher: [cross-talk] Okay.

Witness: …he’s back but I’m at the house.

Dispatcher: Okay, okay. We can go ahead and disconnect we already have, um, help on the way but my partner is already gathering their information. Okay? Okay.

Witness: Alright, I’ll be here.

Dispatcher: Okay, thank you.

Witness: Alright.

Paul Bernardo Police Interrogation Transcript

Paul Bernardo is a serial killer and serial rapist (the Scarborough Rapist) in Canada, active between 1987 and 1992. Prior to marrying is ex-wife, he had only committed rapes. His wife, Karla Homolka, participated in the murders and helped obtain the girls that would be killed. In the case of Elizabeth Bain’s murder, the defendant, Robert Baltovich’s attorney contended that Bernardo was the actual perpetrator. The following is the police interview about this.

Paul Bernardo Police Interview Transcript

Detective Brad Hoover: My name is, uh, Detective Brad Hoover. Uh, My patch number 6188. I’m with the Toronto Police Sex Crime Unit. Uh, the time now is 2:05 p.m. and we’re presently at the Kingston Penitentiary in Kingston Ontario, uh, in a board room as thick as the main building, you would call it. Um, present in the room here, if I could just have the two of you identify yourself for the purposes of the video tape that’s being made. Seated to my left, off camera, um, now sitting at the table is your counsel? Just, could you please identify yourself?

Counsel Anthony Bryant: Yes, sir. It’s Anthony Bryant.

Detective Brad Hoover: And, uh, straight across the table from me, if you could identify yourself please?

Detective Coulis: [inaudible] Coulis C-O-U-L-I-S Badge number 64834 police service.

Detective Brad Hoover: And seated to my right, if you could just identify yourself please?

Paul Bernardo: Paul Jason Teale AKA Paul Bernardo.

Detective Brad Hoover: And again, my name is Brad Hoover and today is June the 7th of 2007. Mr. Teale, the reason we’re here today is, uh, to speak to you in regards to a couple of incid… a couple of matters. First of all, before we start, I just want you to, um, make sure you are aware that what we say is being videotaped here.

Paul Bernardo: Yeah, I’m aware.

Detective Brad Hoover: I’m just going to start this audio tape. I forgot to do that before. [bang and beep] Uh, just started this audio tape here. We started the interview at 2:05 p.m. My name is, uh, Detective Brad Hoover. Paul, um, you’re not, presently being given a cation or anything. I want you to understand that what you’re saying to us today is voluntary. That means that if you don’t want to talk to us, you don’t have to. Uh, your counsel is present and uh, if you need to speak to him you certainly can but I just want to make sure that you understand that what you say here is voluntary and uh, that we’re interviewing you as a potential witness. Do you understand that?

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Uh, just a little bit of background about the first time we met back last year in April 2006. Um, that was in regards to a letter that you had sent to general attorney’s office that filtered down to my office in regards to some admissions you had made about some sexual assaults you had committed. I am here to tell you that I have concluded that investigation and that um, there have been two offences that I have been able to identify and uh, with the information that you provided to me at that time was able to conclude those matters as having been committed by yourself. So, for that I thank you for that information, and…

Paul Bernardo: Um, sorry. You’ve identified [cross talk]

Detective Brad Hoover: Identified the offence. No, no, no, I identified the office you were talking about and uh, based on that information I was able to conclude those cases that, that actually provided enough information that I was satisfied that you were the person the committed those offenses.

Paul Bernardo: Okay. Now what about….

Detective Brad Hoover: That make sense?

Paul Bernardo: And that makes sense. What about ones that you thought that I came forward with and you thought I didn’t do? Was it any of those?

Detective Brad Hoover: There was none that I thought that you didn’t do. There was some that I didn’t have enough information to either identify the offence because, um, you were unable to provide enough details at that time or they may not have ever been reported to the police. Cause you said, when we spoke, some of them were, uh, wouldn’t call them minor offence but, uh…

Paul Bernardo: No, I understand.

Detective Brad Hoover: …offences that may not have been reported the police.

Paul Bernardo: Okay um, problem. Uh, I turned on the TV, waited for Peer Regional to come by. September rolls around, they say, make a public announcement, it’s written on my filed here that uh, that I lied to police and I did not commit the crimes that I said I committed and [inaudible] on Peel Regional. Big problem.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. I’ve spoken to Peel Region…

Paul Bernardo: Yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: …and they have told me that, uh, they don’t have enough information at this point to identify anything that you’ve, um, the letter that was sent to the police, to through the police, wasn’t specific enough to identify any offences. Now, that’s something we can talk about sort of following this interview. And if you want to get into that, we can talk about that.

Paul Bernardo:  Well, I’ve been sitting on this for years [inaudible]. It’s written in my file and it makes me seem like a loony. Just this crazy, you guys love doing that, I’m just this crazy psychopathic liar. Why was that statement an issue? Why didn’t they come in and talk to me if they didn’t have enough information? We were waiting…On that tape, you can play that tape back when I asked you guys if Peel Regional was going to come in. I sat there month after month after month, no one came. I turned on the TV in September, Peel Regional declared Paul Bernardo was, you know, this crazy liar to police. What, what, what’s is the fundamental problem here?

Detective Brad Hover: Well…

Paul Bernardo:  No, I mean, I guess that’s just the Canadian way and uh, and, and no one comes in and now you guys are saying you did not have enough information.

Detective Brad Hover: Well, I can’t answer for them specifically as to what they did or didn’t do. Um, I can tell you that, because they are a separate police department I don’t have control over what investigation that they did do. I can tell you I have spoken with the investigator in Peel Region and they have told me that at this point they do not have enough information to move forward. They haven’t been able to identify any offence that we specifically talked about.

Paul Bernardo:  That statement you’re giving to me is much different than the public statement that they said which is I’m a liar.

Detective Brad Hover: Okay. Well, I don’t, I don’t…

Paul Bernardo:  It’s night and day and they didn’t come in. If they didn’t have enough information, why don’t you come in and get the information? I mean, either I’m lying or I’m not lying, and this goes to the [inaudible] of this argument. Either I’m a liar to you and I’m going to lie to you about everything like I did to Peel Regional according to their story or I’m not. You know, I, I, I just, I just, I’m not going to sit here and come voluntarily, and people come, and you guys ban me from the press. You roll your stories over and you constantly say I’m a liar, I’m a liar. I made mistakes 17 years ago. 17, okay, fine, I did but, but now we’re talking about today and you’re not going to roll forward that I’m some psychopathic liar sitting in jail claiming other people’s responsibilities for other crimes. This is a total cross examination point. You want to start this thing? [inaudible] grab ahold of it. Say “well, you lied about other crimes, you know, he’s a crazy liar.” Why didn’t you guys resolve this?

Detective Brad Hover: And again, I can not answer for what Peel Region did or didn’t do. Um…

Detective Coulis: Jurisdictionally we are kind of bound as to what takes place [crosstalk]

Paul Bernardo:  Well, but still, the good guys and the bad guys. You know what I mean? You’re on the same team.

Detective Coulis: Yes, we are but as far as us inv, investigating matters outside of the actual Toronto Proper, um, that’s why Peel Regional has their police service and like Detective Hoover said, we can’t answer as to what they did with their investigations or the issues they were looking at or transpired out in their area and we really can’t speak to that. Now, whether that’s something you wish to have your counsel down the line then that’s sometime else…

Paul Bernardo: Yeah, that’s true.

Detective Coulis: But unfortunately, there’s, we, there wasn’t a lot Detective Hoover and I could do in regards to those things.

Paul Bernardo: Well, [inaudible] they should subpoena the guys from Peel Regional. They could bring in all the facts of where I lied, then, if I’m a liar. That’s what I say to do because either I’m a liar or I’m not a liar and I’m not a liar. But you guys are trying to paint me as one. The public, they, they turn on the TV in September of last year and I’m this crazy liar. Uh, that’s what the TV reported. Not only did they report it there, they wrote it on my file. I’ve got it [inaudible] myself. Paul Bernardo uh, Peel Regional says that Paul Bernardo lied about crimes he didn’t commit, said he did.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um…

Paul Bernardo:  I mean, this, this, that’s just awful. I mean, come on.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.

Paul Bernardo:  Enough manipulation. You know what I mean? Either I told the truth or otherwise the whole purpose of the interview is stupid because if I’m this crazy liar I would just be sitting here lying to you about everything, right? Right? I mean, why wouldn’t I? I’m just this crazy liar.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. And again, I don’t, I don’t know exactly what was said by Peel Regional and I’m not here to answer to what they said. Either [crosstalk]

Paul Bernardo:  You know, it’s, it’s one thing, you know, I’m a human being and, and to say that I’m a dangerous offender, raping and killing and all this stuff, it’s fine. I mean, free publicity deal, get that, tough on crime, get that bad guy. But when it gets to a certain point [inaudible] it just, it affects me totally. You know what I mean? I made mistakes. I made mistakes a long time ago. But don’t say that today about me because then we’re lying, and we have a big problem here because I’m looking at you and you’re the bad guys because I’m not doing anything wrong. I’m telling the truth and you guys are walking around issuing statements that I lied here, I lied there. No?

Detective Coulis: Well, those weren’t statements issued by Detective Hoover and myself or [crosstalk]

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah, I know but it’s the attorney general that sent you guys down here. He’s fighting this case. He’s taking this [inaudible] back, right? So, it’s, it’s, really all the, the same organization isn’t it? Attorney general I saw on TV talking about it.

Detective Coulis: But, but this is a separate matter from what those issues…

Paul Bernardo: But it’s still the General Attorney’s office. [laughs]

Detective Coulis: Yeah, it, it, may very well be but um, like I said I can’t speak to anything that Peel Regional does. Say for instance they release to the media because they have….

Paul Bernardo:  You know, it’s the same thing. If I’m a liar, take the facts that they have, they come down, they talk to me, any cross examine, any defense lawyer, call them up and show me where I’m lying because you’re not going to find it. Maybe there’s a minor mistake here or there because I think there’s one thing about some, tree, driveway, where the trees were, you know your memory gets a little fuzzy over time but to say that is just ridiculous. Its like you guys didn’t go, uh, you guys polygraph Karla yet? Ask her about it? Nobody from the General Attorney’s office go down there? Nobody cared? Again, it’s the same, I know, but it’s the same problem because you guys are making me out to be a huge liar and, and this is a huge liar and, and…

Detective Brad Hoover: Well, I don’t, I don’t have any doubt as to what you told us before. Ah, the facts that I can verify I believe were true and from what you’ve told me and you haven’t told me any lies yet so I don’t have any personal reason to believe you’re lying to me.

Paul Bernardo:  Exactly.

Detective Brad Hoover: So, again…

Paul Bernardo:  Exactly but this is a different story than what I have on my file and….

Detective Brad Hoover: And I don’t know what is in your file because I’m not privy to that information or what’s there or what’s not there. I’m just telling you from my perspective and from an investigator perspective, and to what I’ve looked into and to what admissions you made in April last year, to me, you know, I’m satisfied. I’ve done what I can do as far as the investigation. If Peel, if you would like to provide me with more information about the specific occurrences that occurred in Peel Region, then we can talk about that after the, uh, focus of what we are here for today.

Paul Bernardo:  But it is, it is part of the focus.

Detective Brad Hoover: It is and it isn’t. I mean, obviously directly we are here today to deal with the Baltovich matter that you’re aware of.

Paul Bernardo:  But dealing with me comes down to credibility.

Detective Brad Hoover: Comes down to credibility and absolutely it does and that’s, um, that’s what we’re here to talk about today. So, let’s, let’s deal with that and then we will deal with the other stuff afterwards. Is that okay?

Paul Bernardo:  Well, yeah. I was just making my point on it because it’s got to be addressed sometime.

Detective Brad Hoover: Absolutely. It will be.

Paul Bernardo:  Well, it should have been dealt with a year and a bit ago. So.

Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah.

Paul Bernardo:  Well, not quite a year, actually.

Detective Brad Hoover: A little over a year ago. Um, I have a few, some questions that were, um, that were given to me to ask you in relation to the, um, Baltovich matter, Robert Baltovich matter. Um, before we do that, I just want to say you obviously understand the importance of telling the truth and, and, um, the potential consequences of someone who lies to the police, um, and not telling the truth?

Paul Bernardo:  I think we’ve discovered that. Actually, I was referring you guys tell the truth.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right.

Paul Bernardo: [laughs]

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, so we’re aware of that.  And, um, in this matter I believe we’ve had some conversations with your counsel and, in regards to it and um, there has been some discussion about polygraph testing in this matter. Is that true or not true or do you recall that?

Paul Bernardo:  Wha… [laughs] you’re opening up cans of worms everywhere.

Detective Brad Hoover: No, I’m just asking you a specific question.

Paul Bernardo:  You know that goes back to you guys polygraph [inaudible]. You guys didn’t polygraph Karla and haven’t in the two years since. Have you guys gone down there and asked her? Have you settled that matter with it? Because you can say that I lied or whatever about a polygraph, but have you asked her? Because if, it comes down to a lot of that issue. I mean, have you asked her? General attorney [cross talk]

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, let me tell you a little bit. My involvement with this overall investigation of the Baltovich is very limited. Uh, the only knowledge that I have, as to what investigation has been done or hasn’t been done is related to the conversations I’ve had with this interview here today.

Paul Bernardo:  Okay.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, who or what other witnesses there are I don’t know.

Paul Bernardo:  An answer your question, an answer your question, I don’t want to go off on tangents, but all these issues are relevant. I know you don’t think they are, but they are. An answer to your question is we had some discussion on it but when [inaudible] and Peel PD came down before Karla was released I told them I would be willing to take a polygraph on anything and everything, would you in turn, are you going to go down before you release Karla, just to ask her. She’s not going to take it she’s going to fail on all these issues. [inaudible] blah blah blah.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right.

Paul Bernardo:  Did [inaudible] happen in July? Was the girl in January actually to kidnapped [inaudible]. Picked up somebody in the bar that she tried to [inaudible] roll over and all, all these other issues, all relevant. All relevant and, and, so then I addressed it to you guys when you came back again, uh, last year. I said “yeah, I’ll take a polygraph on anything because I’m not telling a lie on a thing”. Are you, have you, again I ask the question, have you guys gone down there? I mean, I know Karla’s free now. I’m not in the business of disciplinary [inaudible] it’s not my thing but my point was did you ask her the question just so we get the story straight. I mean, if she refuses, well, there’s, there’s a reason why she’s refusing. And again, you guys couldn’t provide an answer. And now almost a year later, and again you don’t provide an answer. So, I mean, you know, I don’t know what you’re asking me. You asking me to take a polygraph when you’re not willing to ask her?

Detective Brad Hoover: Well, again this, this, my part in this investigation is, is limited to what we’re seeing here today so, so the details of all of what other witnesses may or may not have been [inaudible] or done, I don’t know. And as a potential witness I’m not allowed to tell you what I’ve…

Paul Bernardo:  Well, yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: …done. So, that, I have to sort of be careful about the way that’s answered or even what you think my answer might be.

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah, no, I just, just wanted for the record that I gave you good information in which you guys could’ve, independent of me, could have verified my story or not.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.

Paul Bernardo: And whether you guys do or do not is not my business. Like I said I’m not a prosecutor.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right.

Paul Bernardo: I’m not here to point my finger at anyone but I showed you guys where to go so if you guys don’t do that it’s your business. But, you know, to me, it’s like, if you didn’t, why didn’t you if you guys want the truth about things?

Detective Brad Hoover: Right, so, I understand that. And I understand what you’re saying so, um, what we’re here to talk about today, uh, obviously you know that this statement uh, may be used in court or may be [inaudible] to court as a voluntary statement.

Paul Bernardo: Yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: A polygraph obviously is not uh, something that is court admissible. I’m not sure if you’re aware of that or not.

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah, I am.

Detective Brad Hoover: It’s not used in court. Okay, um, so the crux of what we’re here to talk about is it’s been suggested that, um, in the continuing investigation of Elizabeth Bain, and the charge of murder against Robert Baltovich, that you are the alternative suspect or an alternative suspect. Are you aware of that?

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah, yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, did you kill Elizabeth Bain on June 19 of 1990?

Paul Bernardo:  Well, that’s a loaded question. I mean, are we going to go back and, and, and go through the time sequence of what happened in my life? I mean, I could just give a yes or no answer, but you know, there’s a lot of issues about that.

Detective Brad Hover: Right.

Paul Bernardo:  You know Karla my [inaudible] who did what, where, when. This is why I said did you guys go down there to get a polygraph to see if she’s telling the truth about it. Why didn’t they do it in the first place? I mean, polygraphed everyone in the Camaro, why not make a deal with someone and not give them a polygraph. It’s incomprehensible to me. Now I’m sitting, my file says her version and it’s a lie. You know? You know what I mean?

Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah.

Paul Bernardo:  I, I, you know, I’m not making frivolous points. I mean, now you’re asking me, after you said, Peel Regional said I’m lying about this and then you’re saying I’m lying about my profile, you’re saying I’m lying about if I’m better or not. Now you’re saying, “hey did you kill this person?” Well you’re saying I’m lying here, here, here. I could say “no I didn’t” but I mean, you already said I lied here with Peel, you’re saying…

Detective Brad Hoover: No, I’m not saying, I’m not saying anything about who’s lying. I’m simply…

Paul Bernardo:  And I’ve given you directions to go find the truth. I’ve always done that.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right and I’ve, I’ve asked, again I’ve told you that I’ve done investigations on information that you’ve told me, and as a result of that information I’ve been able to verify. In my mind you’ve told me the truth. So, if Peel Regional is lying about you or someone else is lying about you, I have no control over that or know…

Paul Bernardo:  That goes right back to credibility.

Detective Brad Hoover: Well, absolutely it does and that’s, I guess, the, the easy way [inaudible] if we can go through, we answer the questions and yes, I hope to be able to go through some time line to identify where you were, what you were doing specifically in relation to this case.

Paul Bernardo:  Anyways, I know I’m giving you guys a hard time about some things, but I mean, really, I’m a human being and when you guys do all these things, I got to…anyways, I’ll try to [inaudible]. Anyways the answer to that is no but, the 800lb gorilla in the room, that’s a 25 to life sentence. You know? It really comes down to credibility.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right.

Paul Bernardo:  And not only credibility, timeline and between what Karla and my rules were respectively. The answer to that is no.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, did you have anything to do with her disappearance?

Paul Bernardo:  No.

Detective Brad Hoover: Did you know Elizabeth Bain?

Paul Bernardo:  Not that I know of.

Detective Brad Hoover: Had you ever met her?

Paul Bernardo:  I could answer that with a “I don’t remember” because if I did or if I didn’t, I don’t remember. I know an ex-girlfriend tried to say but like I said, I don’t remember.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Um, you are obviously aware of her disappearance…

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah, sort of.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, do you recall when you became aware of this?

Paul Bernardo: [sighs] Best that I can best recollect is after September. Didn’t follow the news much.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, the date, obviously, June the 19th , 1990 was [crosstalk]

Paul Bernardo:  But, but, but you know, other, other than that, I don’t remember. You know what I mean? I heard about it before, but I can’t recall…

Detective Brad Hoover: You can’t recall…

Paul Bernardo:  …if I did or not, but I remember in jail I had news papers after that fact. I saw something on that sort.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um, we’ll, we’ll sort of get into that in a little bit when we, uh, hope to go through a bit of a timeline with you as to some things that may jog your memory as to…

Paul Bernardo:  Now we’re talking.

Detective Brad Hoover: …um, back in that time. I mean, if you asked me what I was doing three weeks ago on Tuesday I probably couldn’t tell you unless you put some reference to it. So, we’ll hopefully be able to do that. Um, and again, obviously June the 19th, 1990, do you know what you were doing that day?

Paul Bernardo: [laughs] No, I have no idea.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, I, I have a document here in front of me that uh, references some points in time around this June of 1990 from police investigation. This is what um, indicates you may have been involved with or may have, certain things you may have done that… I’d like to go over a couple of them that um, sort of made, sort of assist you in remembering what you were doing back in 1990. Um, the first part of June, 1990, actually June the 1st, Karla had uh doctors appointment um, where she was complaining of pains in her right side. Um, perhaps she had something to do with a rabies shot. Does that ring any bells?

Paul Bernardo: Not at all.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Um. In the first part of June you had a Nissan 40SX. Is that correct?

Paul Bernardo:  Yeah.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. You were making several trips into the United States. Uh, June 2nd, June 3rd, June 10th, June 16th . I think at that point you were involved with cigarette smuggling and things like that. From what I recall, someone said no.

Paul Bernardo:  That would be no. That wasn’t until after we moved out so.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Um, making a couple of trips to the States within a couple days, that, that’s something [crosstalk]

Paul Bernardo:  When we started the relationship, we were going over all the time so. Just for personal reasons though.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, on June the 16th you shopped at Ruff Hewn, is that, in the Niagara Falls United States, is, that store sound familiar to you?

Paul Bernardo:  Yes, it sounds familiar. I have no idea about those are the dates but…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.

Paul Bernardo: If you got a receipt for it…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, I think there must be a receipt there. And again, I don’t have all of the details. I’m just doing by what’s on this sheet of paper. Um, a black expandable binder, is that…

Paul Bernardo:  I think. I can’t recall one hundred percent but…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. That would have been around the same time. That was about a week prior to, if you purchased one of those, um, Elizabeth Bain going missing.

Paul Bernardo:  I have no idea when I purchased it. I just…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.

Paul Bernardo:  …recall I had something like that. Like an according binder type thing.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um, June, June the 16th, again that would be the same day, the same [inaudible] you attended a movie, um, Back to the Future 3. Do you recall when that movie came out?

Paul Bernardo: [laugh] No.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, there’s a receipt for a cell phone purchased at Radio Shack at the Town and Country Mall at 6366 Young Street. Remember buying a cellphone?

Paul Bernardo: Oh, you know, I bought a cellphone around that time because when I declared bankruptcy [inaudible], I bought the, the, Radio Shack one. I don’t know the dates…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, that would have been the day after Elizabeth Bain went missing. Uh, do you remember anything you were involved with around that time? You said you were going bankrupt so what type of activity were you involved in on a day to day basis?

Paul Bernardo: The only reason I remember bankruptcy is that happened uh, uh, around, a couple days before the, the, sexual assault type thing [inaudible]. If I recollect collectly, correctly, it was two days before I, I, filed for that. But I couldn’t even tell you that date, I just know it was sometime in… What, what date did you say that was? June the…

Detective Brad Hoover: June the, uh, 16th of 1990.

Paul Bernardo:  When was that sexual assault, uh the one with the [inaudible]. Was it 24th? 24th? What date do you guys have for that?

Detective Brad Hover: Um, there was one, there was a sexual assault in May of 1990.

Paul Bernardo:  Is that the [inaudible] one in [inaudible]?

Detective Brad Hoover: I think that it is but it doesn’t say that specifically here but shortly after that, um…

Paul Bernardo:  My timeline’s off.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, the end of June of 1990 that was the original, when someone identified you actually as the Scarborough rapist.

Paul Bernardo:  What? The end of…?

Detective Brad Hoover: That was the end of June 1990. Um, Laurie Homolka’s 19th birthday was June the 22nd of 1990. Do you recall her going to her birthday?

Paul Bernardo:  No, I know, I know it was around that time, but I don’t specifically recall that.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. The only reason [inaudible] people drinking [inaudible] perhaps. [inaudible]

Paul Bernardo: [shakes head “no”]

Detective Brad Hover: [inaudible]

Paul Bernardo: [inaudible] so.

Detective Brad Hoover: Um. June the 21st, so just, just a day after you bought the cell phone, um, you may have purchased…

Paul Bernardo: I’m sorry, you saying June 19th was this girl’s…

Detective Brad Hoover: June 19th was the day she went missing.

Paul Bernardo: What day did I buy that…

Detective Brad Hoover: June 20th was the day you bought the cell phone. Uh, June 24th

Paul Bernardo: See, I must, I must have filed bankruptcy around then because I got that cellphone [inaudible]. I had to hand my, all my, uh, items in, uh, to the trustee and I had a cell phone, so I went in and got a Radio Shack one. So, it would have been right around the same time. I don’t think I went a month without it. I don’t think so. I might have but I, but anyways, I don’t know. It was a while ago, so memories are fuzzy.

Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah. May the 29th, so that was just before that, or about a month before that, that was the day police released the commons.

Paul Bernardo: Oh, so it was May. [inaudible]

Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah, so that was, uh…

Paul Bernardo: See what happens when you lock a guy up for 15 years then bring this all up? [laughs] Memory gets fuzzy. So, I guess I waited a month to get the cellphone.

Detective Brad Hoover: About a month to get the cellphone. Do you recall anything, what you were, what you were doing during that month? Anything….

Paul Bernardo: Probably the same thing it says there. Going across the border, back and forth, recreational stuff. I know Tammy happened in July. Um, that was [inaudible] in July for the first time. But this was back a few months.

Detective Brad Hoover:  Okay, um…

Paul Bernardo: Maybe [inaudible]

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. So just prior to Tammy’s birthday there was some shopping at a Canadian tire store.

Paul Bernardo: Laurie’s birthday.

Detective Brad Hoover: Sorry, Laurie’s, uh, birthday. Um, two times in one day you went to a tire store on Sheppard avenue. 1019 Sheppard Avenue. [Bernardo shrugs signifying “I don’t know”] Do you normally shop at Canadian tire stores?

Paul Bernardo: Back then [inaudible]. That’s before all of these super centers and Wal-Marts and stuff [inaudible] so…

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um, do you ever recall having any conversations um, about the disappearance of Elizabeth Bain?

Paul Bernardo: No.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. If I, if I played you, um, a short audio clip, um, it’s uh, conversation that you had, or conversation between Moore who was an investigator with the Toronto Police and Karla Homolka. I’m just going to play this. See if this, uh, sounds familiar or if it jogs your memory as to any conversation you may have had.

http://clip%20begins

Karla Homolka: Um, I think the only thing he ever said about her was that her boyfriend did it or something like that but there wasn’t any real extensive discussion. But he talked about like all, all the women disappearing.

http://clip%20ends

Detective Brad Hoover: And again, that, that was a conversation between, uh, investigator Tony Moore with Toronto Police Service and Karla Homolka. Does that conversation, does, that something you may recall saying that to Karla or talking about that?

Paul Bernardo: Well, you know, she went down with “Paul did it”. Catch phrase for the trial was “Paul did it, it was Paul” and this is, she’s continuing right there. She’s, you know, [inaudible]. The fact of the matter was I didn’t pay attention to any of it. I didn’t watch the news back then. I was too busy doing other things. I didn’t pay attention. The profile is “serial killer pays attention to the news and media, narcissistic personality blah blah blah” all that crap. I don’t know anything about this case now. I don’t know if this guy did it. I don’t even really care. I’m not the prosecutor, you know, do the right thing for society, blah blah blah.  I don’t know if he did it. I don’t know the facts behind if he did it and I certainly didn’t back then. So, to say that, for me to, she’s alleging that I made a statement “the boyfriend did it”. Well, you know, some cases I have followed because I am in jail and I have nothing to do but watch the TV. But I weigh the facts. You know, I take, you know, did OJ do it, for example.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right.

Paul Bernardo: You weigh the facts about whether he did or didn’t. He got out so that’s the law, but I would have to weigh the facts. I don’t know the facts of this circumstances so there’s no way I could make a statement such as that. How could I say he did it if I don’t know the facts of the case? So, no, she’s, she’s, she’s incorrect in her statement.

Detective Brad Hoover: And it may depend on when that conversation took place between her and that investigator.

Paul Bernardo: Well, Moore, wasn’t he back when that deal was made? Moore, I remember reading on transcripts [inaudible] from day one. When she signed her little twelve year deal, no polygraph required. Hey, [laughs] I’m giving you guys the truth here. You guys could prove me wrong, go down there, ask her, you’ll get a “no”, I keep telling you, no one does it. But um, I don’t know why. But you know, that sounds like a conversation, that’s what you do, pin it all on the other person, you know, you paint that scenario.  [inaudible]

Detective Brad Hoover: Um, do you, do you know of Robert Baltovich.

Paul Bernardo: I’ve seen him on, you know, [inaudible] T.V. or whatever. Like I said, I purposely avoided this case.

Detective Brad Hover: Alright.

Paul Bernardo: I don’t, I don’t like up, this shit on my mind. You know what I mean? Needing to, you know…Unfortunately when Karla came on I watched to sort of discern truth from fiction a couple years ago but otherwise I don’t like to get into these things. I have had a hundred lifetimes of this stuff. You know, so, and I don’t want my mind poisoned with this and this and this. So, this case I avoided as much as possible, but I have seen his face on the T.V.

Detective Brad Hoover: Right. Anything else you would like to tell us about this investigation?

Paul Bernardo: No.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay the time now is uh 2:35 and we’ll conclude this portion of the interview.

 

 

 

Lamora Williams Case Summary

In 2017, Lamora Williams was a 24-year-old newly single mother of 4 children. Sometime between the midnight of October 12th and 11 p.m. on October 13th, she is accused of having placed her two youngest children in an oven and turning it on.

According to Williams’s family, she has always been troubled, and it was only made worse by the children’s father leaving them and possibly postpartum depression. LamoraWilliams’s sister, Tabitha Hollingsworth, noted that the behavioral and emotional problems started young and recalled Williams attempting suicide. Brenda Williams, Lamora Williams’s mother, said that she was a slow learner to the extent that she had to be pulled out of public school to be homeschooled.

At 18 years old she had her first child, a daughter. Her daughter’s father’s family helped Williams. After this relationship failed, she got into a long-term relationship with Jameel Penn Sr. and had 3 children with him. In 2017 when Williams was 24, Jameel Penn Sr. left Williams and her children, but still assisted her with the children and finances. Penn and young sonsWhen Penn broke it off with Williams, Williams’s mother told Penn that “something tragic was going to happen to those kids, she’s going to do something to herself”. Williams’s mother also tried to get custody of Williams’s children or otherwise have them removed from Williams’s care after Williams’s father’s death. In a call to the Division of Family and Children Services, Williams’s mother expressed concern about her daughter’s mental health and was worried that she was not feeding her children. This concern is backed up by Williams’s sister stating that Williams regularly left the toddler children alone.

On the evening of October 13th, Williams’s close friend Neesa Smith received a call where Williams was in obvious distress. When Smith asked Williams what was wrong, Williams simply stated she couldn’t do it anymore. She went on to tell Smith that her two youngest children, 1 year old Ja’Karter and 2 year old Ke-Yaunte, were dead. Smith pushed for Williams to call the police. Instead of calling the police, Williams next video called the children’s father, Jameel Penn. During the call, Williams panned her camera around her apartment and Penn saw his sons on the floor. He then promptly called the police.

At 11:30p.m., Williams also called the police. In the 911 call, Williams claimed she left Lamora Childrenher children with her cousin (then changed it to sister) and found her children dead when she returned home from work. She stated that one child was trapped underneath a “pulled over” oven, both burned, and claimed there were “brains on the floor”.  During the same 911 call, Williams showed great worry over going to jail and asked the dispatcher to reassure her about the possibility of going to jail. The 911 call transcript can be found here.

Police, fire and ambulance arrived at the scene and the two youngest children’s burned bodies were found. Williams’s 3-year-old son, Jameel Penn Jr. was also found unharmed inside of the residence. Williams first child was with other family members during the event. Detectives did not believe Williams’s story and she was arrested.

Some of the charges Williams faces includes felony murder, aggravated assault, cruelty Lamora Mugshotto children in the first degree, cruelty to children in the second degree and making a false statement. Prosecutors believe that Williams may have burnt her two youngest children in an attempt to conceal how she murdered them. Williams pleaded not guilty to the charges. In the aftermath, Williams’s sister expressed concern and stated that Williams should be placed on suicide watch in the jail. Williams’s mother holds her daughter accountable for her actions  while still recognizing that she had problems. She has stated that she may need to seek help herself after losing her “two youngest grand kids because of the actions of her daughter” and that it has been very difficult.

Lamora Williams 911 Transcript

Sometime between the midnight of October 12th and 11 p.m. on October 13th in 2017, Lamora Williams is accused of having placed her two youngest children in an oven and turning it on in her apartment in Atlanta Georgia. In the 911 call she placed, she said that she had left her child with a family member while she was at work. When she returned home, her children were dead, one stuck under an oven, both burned, and claimed there were “brains laid out on the floor”. Her family reports that she had long standing untreated mental illness and detectives did not believe her story. She was charged with her children’s murders. A case summary can be found here. 

Lamora Williams 911 Transcript

Dispatcher: Atlanta 911, Operator 7054, what’s the address of your emergency?

Lamora Williams: Yes. Ma’am, Ma’am, I have a question, and this is a serious matter. Um, I just left, um, my cousin in the house with my kids. Um, she just left my kids in the house when I came back from work,

Dispatcher: Mm-hm

Lamora Williams: and my kids, two of my kids are dead. What am I, what am I, what do I gotta do? They’re dead. She left them dead in the house by theyselves.

Dispatcher: Okay, ma’am, where are you now?

Lamora Williams: I’m in my house. She left my door open. My baby boy, my oldest baby boy is the only one that’s here and only one that’s alive. She left, she left them, she left them in the house by theyselves. She left them in here, and they’re not…

Dispatcher: Okay, hold…

Lamora Williams: Can you listen? When I came in, the stove was layin’ on my son, my youngest son’s head, and my other son was laid out on the floor with his brains laid out on the floor. I don’t know what to do, I just came home from work to this.

Dispatcher: Okay.

Lamora Williams: My baby’s dead.

Dispatcher: Okay, ma’am, I’m gon-gonna get EMS and I’m going to get, um, police and fire at the location. Can you tell me where you’re located?

Lamora Williams: Um, um, um ma’am I can’t even talk. This is so serious. I’m so scared. I don’t want to get locked up, because I was there at work.

Dispatcher: Okay, ma’am [cross talk]

Lamora Williams: I don’t [cross talk]

Dispatcher: I completely understand that you’re scared. I completely understand but I need to get some help out there to you now. Can you tell me where you’re located?

Lamora Williams: I understand that, but please, can you please help me, like, can you please tell me, like, I don’t want to get locked up because this is not my fault. I had just came home from work. I just came home from work.

Dispatcher: Yes, ma’am.

Lamora Williams: I just came home from work.

Dispatcher: Okay, ma’am. The first thing that I need to do is get some help out there to you. I understand that you’re upset and scared.

Lamora Williams: They’ve been here dead. Like, it’s, it’s not, it’s aint no way in the fuck she left my babies dead…

Dispatcher: Okay.

Lamora Williams: …and I don’t have no way to reach her.

Dispatcher: Okay. If you, if you’re not sure, [cross talk] if you were at work, ma’am, listen to me. If you were at work while this happened, then the responsibility is going to fall on your sister. That’s who you left them with. Okay? But where are you [cross talk], can you tell me where you are? Where are you located now? Where are you?

Lamora Williams: I’m located in 979 Howell Place.

Dispatcher: Okay, hold on one moment because I’m also going to get EMS on the line as well, okay?

Lamora Williams: Yes, please.

Dispatcher: Hold on one moment. Yes, ma’am. stay on the line with me though, okay? Hold on one moment with me.

[beep, ringing, shuffling]

Lamora Williams: Okay.

EMS: EMS, what’s the address of the emergency?

Dispatcher: EMS, the call is at 979 Howell Place, Southwest. That’s 979 Howell Place Southwest.

EMS: Alright ma’am, what’s the phone number you’re calling from?

Lamora Williams: 404 [edited] 33

EMS: Okay. Tell me exactly what happened.

Lamora Williams: When I just came home from work, my babies were stuck in the stove dead, and I just came home from work.

EMS: Wait, wait, ma’am.

Lamora Williams: My sister was babysitting my kids and left my kids dead in the house, aint no tellin’ how long they been in this house.

EMS: Alright, wait, are you, is there, is there, is your son obviously dead? Is he breathing at all? Can you tell if he’s breathing?

Lamora Williams: He’s dead, he’s burnt. Both of my children are dead. Their head is burnt, they, the stove is laying on this floor. The stove, one of my babies is stuck. The stove is pulled over and everything.

EMS: Alright [inaudible], can we get PD and fire to this location? I’m operator 839

Dispatcher: Yes, we have PD and fire already en route to that location. I’m 7054.

EMS: Alright, thank you so much.

Lamora Williams: Please help me, please!

EMS: Alright ma’am, I’m en route. Okay?

Lamora Williams: Alright, thank you so much.

Debra Jeter Case Summary

On June 5, 2009, 32-year-old Debra Jeter slit the throats of both of her daughters in an abandoned house off of Interstate 77 in Hillsboro, Texas. Warning signs dated back several years. In 2004, authorities determined that Debra Jeter was physically abusing her older daughter, Kiersten, but the case was dropped after Debra Jeter received mental health treatment.

For reasons not disclosed, in May 2009, Lester Lee Jeter filed court documents to separate from his wife, Debra. Taking the separation badly, on May 22 Debra Jeter attempted suicide by consuming pills in front of her two daughters she had with Lester Jeter. Debra was temporarily institutionalized in a mental health facility. The day after the suicide attempt while Debra was still inpatient, Lester Lee Jeter filed for divorce, obtained a debra-jeter-2temporary restraining order, and was given temporary custody of his two children. In court documents, Lester Lee Jeter stated that “she may be released within a few days, and I am concerned about her possible actions regarding the children” and that he was requesting custody “to protect the safety and well-being of the children and any other person who has been a victim of family violence committed by Jeter”. The day after her release, though, a judge lifted the restraining order and allowed for unsupervised visitation during a hearing. The first court ordered visitation was set for that Friday, June 5th, 2009.

After not seeing their mother for 15 days, 12-year-old Kelsey and 13-year-old Kiersten kelsey-jeterwere excited to see their mother with Kelsey posting on her MySpace page “I GET TO SEE MY MOM TOMMORROW!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!”. Debra Jeter told Lester Lee Jeter that she had a surprise for the girls and was taking them out.

After picking up her daughters in the afternoon, Debra drove them to an abandoned house off Interstate 77 just past highway 35 towards Milford. Debra Jeter first attacked Kiersten with a knife. While fending off her mother, Kiersten screamed for her sister to run. This caused Debra to turn her attention from Kiersten and onto Kelsey. Kiersten was stabbed in the back while trying to protect her sister. Unfortunately, these attempts were unsuccessful, and Debra slit Kelsey’s throat and she died in the bathroom of the abandoned house. Debra returned to Kiersten and cut her from one side of the neck to the other, severing her airway and one of her main arteries.

Despite her severe injuries, she stayed alive and conscious and pleaded with her mother debra-jeter-3to get help. Three hours after picking up her children, Debra Jeter called police to report the crime saying, “I just killed my children”. Even though Debra Jeter was a nursing student, she did not tend to her daughter, instead walked around the abandoned house urging the ambulance to hurry up stating that her daughter that survived is “asking to be saved and she couldn’t handle it”. She also went on to ask the dispatcher to ask the police not to shoot her as she didn’t have a gun. The complete transcript can be read here.

Sadly, the sweet quiet book-loving Kelsey did not survive the attack. Kiersten was air lifted for immediate emergency surgery after being found in the bedroom of the debra-jeter-1abandoned house and survived. Debra’s explanation for her heinous actions was that she was “heartbroken” over the separation and the child custody battle. Her ex-husband, Lester Lee Jeter stated that Debra “figured if she felt that way, then we all must feel that way and she wanted to take away all of our pain”.  After accepting a plea deal where she pleaded guilty to capital murder and attempted capital murder on May 27, 2010, Debra Jeter was sentenced to life without parole. The plea deal avoided the possibility of the death sentence and spared her surviving daughter from having to testify in court.

Debra Jeter 911 Call Transcript

Two weeks after Debra Jeter was temporarily institutionalized in a mental facility for a suicide attempt in front of her two daughters, Jeter slit the throats of her daughters Kiersten (13 years old) and Kelsey (12 years old). The older daughter, Kiersten, survived the attack with severe injuries. Aside from the slashed throat, Kiersten was found to have a stab wound in her back, presumably from an attempt to shield her younger sister from the attack. Unfortunately, she did not survive.

Debra Jeter 911 Call Transcript

Dispatcher: Hill county 911, what’s your emergency?

Debra Jeter: I just killed my children.

Dispatcher: Excuse me?

Debra Jeter: I just killed my children.

Dispatcher: Where are you?

Debra Jeter: Um, I’m in the abandoned house on highway 77 right after you go underneath the highway. One of them is still alive, hurry.

Dispatcher: M, How, under what highway? You’re on highway 77, where?

Debra Jeter: I am on highway 77 right after you go under 35 going towards Milford. Get an ambulance out here to save the one that didn’t die, common, hurry up.

Dispatcher: What’s your name?

Debra Jeter: Bitch, call them! Have you already called them?

Dispatcher: Yes, ma’am, I have.

Debra Jeter: Okay.

Dispatcher: I need your name.

Debra Jeter: I don’t want to tell you my name.

Dispatcher: Hello?

Debra Jeter: Hello.

Dispatcher: Are you still there?

Debra Jeter: Yes, I’m still here.

Dispatcher: 77 towards Milford right after you cross under the bridge. She’s telling me she’s killed her children.

[deep breathing]

Dispatcher: Are you in your car?

Debra Jeter: No, I’m not in my car. I’m in the house walking around and um, one of them is still alive for real. She’s asking to be saved and I couldn’t handle that and so now… [cross talk]

Dispatcher: She thinks she’s in an abandoned house [inaudible]

Debra Jeter: It’s been a long time, she might already die because she’s bled out a lot and… hold on. What baby? [inaudible] What did you say? I’m on the phone with 911. [inaudible daughter] She said please [inaudible] hurry.

Dispatcher: Okay. Well I’ve, we’ve got people in route. Get an ambulance because one of them is still alive, she said. Can you tell me what happened? Ma’am. Hello? Ma’am.

Debra Jeter: What?

Dispatcher: Can you tell me what happened?

Debra Jeter: I can’t get the door open.

Dispatcher: You can’t get what door open, darling?

Debra Jeter: The front door so ya’ll can get in when ya’ll get here. Why won’t it open?

Dispatcher: I don’t know.

Debra Jeter: Hold on. [inaudible]

Dispatcher: Are you on the right hand side of the road or the left hand side of the road, sweety?

Debra Jeter: I’m at [inaudible] side of the road. They know where it’s at!

Dispatcher: They’re coming, they’re coming. I just, I just want to try to clarifor, clarify exactly where they are.

Officer over radio: [inaudible] both in the car.

Dispatcher: Can you tell me what happened?

Debra Jeter: I don’t want to tell you. I tell you what, they’re not coming.

Dispatcher: Well, they’re on their way. My partner is getting, getting them to you just as quickly as she can.

[officers over radio]

How many…

[sirens and officers over radio]

Dispatcher: how many children did you have?

Debra Jeter: Two.

Dispatcher: Huh?

Debra Jeter: Two.

Dispatcher: Two?

Debra Jeter: One of them’s dead. One of them is dead. She’s dead dead. But the other one wants to be saved and I’m, she needs to be saved. And I tell you what, they need to get the fuck out here.

Dispatcher: Honey, they’re coming.

Debra Jeter: [cross talk] …get here.

Officers over radio: [inaudible] abandoned house 1-17 we need more information, is she armed?

Dispatcher: Do you have any weapons?

Debra Jeter: Um, I do, I have a knife.

Dispatcher: She has a knife.

[officers over radio]

Debra Jeter: Should I throw it away?

Dispatcher: No, no ma’am. Just, just put it… She’s got a knife.

Officers over radio: She got a gun?

Debra Jeter: Please hurry.

Dispatcher: Tell her we’re on her way.

Officers over radio: Do you know her name or anything?

Dispatchers: She won’t give me. Can you not tell me what your name is?

Debra Jeter: [inaudible]

Dispatcher: Huh?

Debra Jeter: [inaudible]

Dispatcher: What’s your name, darling?

Debra Jeter: I’m not telling you my name [inaudible].

Dispatcher: How old are your children?

Debra Jeter: Hold on, it’s a what? On the phone. God damn it hurry up!

Dispatcher: Honey, they are coming. They are on their way. You should be hearing lights and sirens. Seeing lights and hearing sirens.

Officers over radio: [inaudible] is going on [inaudible]

You said just, you cross under the bridge that goes to, on 77 towards Milford, you crossed under the bridge to 35 and you’re in an abandoned house. Is that right?

Debra Jeter: Yep. Under 35..

Dispatcher: Cross under

Debra Jeter: 35 on 77, abandoned house up on the hill on the left. Hurry the fuck up.

Officers over radio: 1-6 being routed from…

Dispatcher: She says she’s in the abandoned house…

Officers over radio: [inaudible] 77 and the interstate

Dispatcher: yes, the house on the hill.

Debra Jeter: [inaudible] Hold on, baby.

Dispatcher: Honey, do you hear them now? Hear those sirens and stuff?

[officers over radio]

[Debra and daughter talking inaudibly]

Dispatcher: Shes…

Officer over radio: 10-4

[Debra and daughter talking inaudibly]

Officer over radio: [inaudible] do you know where that house is?

Officer over radio: Nah, I not sure where that house is at]

Officer over radio: [inaudible] you cross under the bridge I know there’s going to be an old grey house that’s off on the left-hand side. It’s going to be hard to see. It’s almost covered by trees and stuff like that.

Dispatcher: Are you still there?

Debra Jeter: I’m here.

[Officer over radio]

Dispatcher: Are you still with me?

Debra Jeter: I’m still with you.

Officer over radio: I’m headed your way from [inaudible]

Debra Jeter: How do they not see it?

Dispatcher: [inaudible]

Debra Jeter: But they’re not here. I’m here, they’re not here.

Dispatcher: They’re on their way, sweetheart. They had to come from different parts of the county.

Debra Jeter: Hold on kid, they’re coming. Tell them not to shoot me. I don’t have a gun.

Dispatcher: Okay. She doesn’t want to get shot ‘cause she doesn’t have a gun.

Another dispatcher: We told them she has a knife so when they get there tell her…

Dispatcher: Okay, when they get there…

Debra Jeter: Uh-huh.

Dispatcher: …I want you to lay the knife down. [radio] Uh, when you get the door open, I want you to lay the knife down so they can see you don’t have any weapons.

Debra Jeter: Okay.

[sirens and officers over radio]

Debra Jeter: Tell them to hurry.

Dispatcher:  They’re hurrying, honey, they’re hurrying.

Officer over radio: 1-17, I’m going to be on the interstate uh, southbound taking the exit uh, which way do I go when I get to uh

Dispatcher: Okay.

Officer over radio: I believe to the right if you’re going northbound trying to find the house []

Debra Jeter: Oh my god, she’s dead. Oh my god.

Dispatcher: How old are the children?

Debra Jeter: I’m not telling you. [inaudible] She wants you to hurry. She wants you to hurry.

Dispatcher: Honey, they are coming. They are coming as fast as they can. They’re trying to be sure…

Officers over radio: [inaudible] to your right.

Dispatcher: Do you see them?

Debra Jeter: They’re coming.

Dispatcher: Do you see them?

Debra Jeter: Still.

Possibly Kiersten Jeter: Okay.

Officer over radio: [inaudible] abandoned house.

Dispatcher: Do you see them?

Debra Jeter: No. Some [inaudible] Hold on.

Officer over radio: Yeah, the one back off in the trees

Debra Jeter: [inaudible] I see something.

Dispatcher: Do you see the lights?

Debra Jeter: No, I see something at the end of the road. I see car lights but not fire lights. Not police lights.

Dispatcher: She says she…

Debra Jeter: [cross talk] car at the end of the driveway.

Dispatcher: She says they, they’re at, see can see…

Debra Jeter: I hear sirens…

Dispatcher: Okay. Do you see them?

Debra Jeter: No, I don’t see them.

Officer over radio: [inaudible]Tell her she needs to come out with her hands up

Dispatcher: Okay. You need to…

Debra Jeter:  Coming [cross talk] the driveway

Dispatcher: I know, I understand. I want….

Debra Jeter: [cross talk] out the driveway with my hands up.

Dispatcher: She’s state…

Debra Jeter: Out the house with both hands up, except for one ‘cause, ‘cause I’m on the phone. They’re coming.

Dispatcher: She says she has her hands up except for the fact that the one that she’s on the phone with. She’s out in the yard. She said she’s out in the yard besides the house.

Debra Jeter: Okay, goodbye. I see them, they’re out here. Goodbye.

Dispatcher: Alright, bye.

Russell Williams Case Summary

Image result for Russell williams underwearRussell Williams is a formal colonel in the Canadian Forces. He has been convicted of sexual assault, two counts of first-degree murder, two counts of forcible confinement, and 84 counts of breaking and entering after confessing to the crimes on February 7, 2010 during a transcribed police interview. His crimes were fetish motivated. On October 21, 2010, he was sentenced to two life sentences, four 10-year sentences, and eighty-two 1-year sentences to be served concurrently. The earliest he can be paroled from the maximum-security prison Port-Cartier Institution will be at age 72.

Background

Russell Williams emigrated from England to Canada as a young child. His parents divorced when he was 6 years old and his mother remarried.Young Russell After completing high school, he obtained his Bachelor of Arts degree in economics and political science from the University of Toronto Scarborough. The following year, Russell Williams enrolled in the Canadian Forces. In 1991 he was promoted to Captain and married Mary Harriman. He was entrusted with flying government officials and foreign leaders, and in 1999 he was promoted to Major. In 2004, Williams obtained a Master of Defense degree from the Royal Military College of Canada and further promoted to lieutenant. Finally, a year prior to his arrest, he was promoted to colonel.

 

 Crimes and Victims

*The following may be disturbing to some readers. Details of sexual assault and murder are discussed below. Reader discretion is advised.*

Williams’s fetish related crimes start in September 2007, although he made a habit of waiting in people’s rooms in college to “play pranks”. Between September 2007 and November 2009, Williams broke into 82 homes, 61 of which went unreported or undetected. During these break in’s Williams would steal female underwear, sometimes of victims as young as 9 years old, take photos, and lay in their beds and masturbate. These crimes were all documented through photographs and videos he took, along with stolen items he kept and cataloged. His photos generally followed the same pattern with each victim.RussellFirst, he would take pictures of the victim’s bedroom in general and anything that helped identify the victim such as mail. Then he would take photos of undergarments in the victim’s drawer before laying them out on the bed or floor and taking more photos. The next photos would be of him wearing the underwear, and then him ejaculating, generally back at his house. He would meticulously categorize the photos, undergarments, and police and news reports. Of the people who he could not identify in their bedrooms, he would name the files in which their respective photographs were kept, “mysterious little girls”. He would also leave notes with some of his victims, one of which was “merci”, which means “thank you” in French, on a 12-year-old’s computer.

 

As time went on, William’s crimes escalated. One victim’s house he broke into a total of nine times. On the 6th time, he watched a woman get into the shower from outside of her window, broke in, got naked, stole her panties naked, then left the house before she got out of the shower to discover him. In another case of his fetish and crimes escalating, Williams got completely naked in masturbated in bushes outside of a teenager’s window. Russell3On New Years in 2008, Williams broke into a 15-year-old girl’s bedroom, and after taking undergarments and photographs, touched his genitals with her make up brush and left it behind in her bedroom to later be used. Williams obtained so much panties, bras and lingerie that he still had several boxes and bags of it despite burning much of it to make room. Between two victims alone, he stole around 60 items of intimate clothing.

Of the four sexual assaults, the first victim’s name has not been released. On September 16th, 2009, Williams cut the screen to the side window of the victim’s house and crawled in while she was asleep. He snuck up next to the bed and after watching her for a short while, hit her with his fist, waking her. They struggled, and she expressed concern for her young baby in the next room and her own life. He told her that he was not going to hurt her, took photos of her in various undergarments she had, stole some undergarments, and left.

The next victim was Laurie Massicotte. Williams removed a screen from the back window of her house, slid the window open, and climbed in.Laurie Massicotte was asleep on the couch in front of the T.V. in her living room. Williams hit her in the head with a flashlight in hopes of rendering her unconscious. This attempt was unsuccessful. Williams struggled with Masscotti, tied her hands behind her back and told her that there were other men robbing her house. He claimed to her that he was in charge of controlling her and that he would not hurt her if she complied with him. Because her hands were tied behind her back he removed her shirt by cutting it off of her. He took various photos of her in her underwear and sexually assaulted her over a period of two to two and a half hours before telling her to wait for a period of time before calling the police. He then went home a couple houses away and went to sleep.

 

The first murder victim was Marie-France Comeau, a fellow military woman who worked at William’s Air Force Base, CFB Trenton. Williams broke into her residence a few nights prior to her murder, stealing panties after wearing them himself inside of her house. On November 24, 2009, after listening to her having a conversation on the phone in her bedroom from outside, Williams went through her basement window and hid behind the furnace waiting for her to fall asleep. Comeau’s cat notices Williams and is fixated on him. Comeau comes into the basement trying to call her cat upstairs when she discovers Williams. Marie-FranceWilliams and Comeau get into a physical struggle where he hits her about her head with his flashlight in an attempt to knock her out, ties her hands behind her back, and duct tapes her mouth the prevent her from screaming. At some point during the struggle Williams ties Comeau to a pole in her basement and goes outside to put the screen back on the window to prevent anyone noticing something is amiss. Williams leads her up the stairs to the bedroom, but Comeau faints on the stairs and he carries her the rest of the way. Over a series of hours Williams rapes Comeau. While he left the room to check outside the windows for people coming, Comeau runs to the bathroom where she tries to get help through the window. He subdues her and brings her back to the bedroom. He attempts to strangle her, but she put up too much of a fight for him to successfully do so. Instead, he places tape over her nose (with her mouth already being taped) and holds her down on the floor face down until she suffocates. After her death, Williams then removes the tape and places her back in bed and pulls the covers up before leaving.

On January 28, 2010, Williams notices Jessica Lloyd on her treadmill as he drives past her house. Williams broke into her home through the kitchen window before she came home, then left. When she returned and she went to sleep he came in through the unlocked back patio door. He snuck up to the side of the bed intending to try to knock her out with his flashlight, but she woke up before he could. She was compliant to his demands so he did not hit her, instead placed a zip tie around her neck and told her if he did not like what she did, he would pull the zip tie. Over a span of three to four hours he raped and took pictures of Jessica Lloyd before loading her up into his vehicle and driving her back to his cottage closer to work (his wife lived at their newly built house). Image result for jessica lloyd russell williamsUpon arrival, they laid in his bed so he could nap, wrapping the rope that bound her hands around his body so he would feel if she tried to leave. She began to have a stress induced seizure sometime after more sexual assault, and he claims to have given her water, talked her through it, and had another nap on the floor with her after the seizure because she was exhausted. After taking series of photos of both her in different undergarments and him and her together, he told her he would bring her back home. They ate some fruit and then as they went to leave the house, he struck her on the back of the head with his flashlight. The blow rendered her unconscious with him believing that her skull caved. While she was unconscious, he strangled her. He then removed the zip tie, bound her body into a fetal position with duct tape, and placed her into the garage so he could go to work. After spending a time with his wife for a few days, he went back to his cottage and disposed of her body along a road behind a rock.  A roadblock on Highway 37 on February 4th discovered his Pathfinder’s tires produced the same tracks as those found outside of Jessica Lloyd’s house and he was brought in for questioning a few days later. There they found his shoe prints matched those found in the snow outside of her house and he confessed to both murders, the sexual assaults, and 82 break ins.

Conviction and Sentencing

On October 7, 2010, Williams plead guilty to all charges and on October 22, Ontario Superior Court Justice Robert Scott sentenced him to two life terms to be served concurrently, without the possibility of parole for 25 years. Williams’s commission and metals were revoked, and he was expelled from the Canadian Forces. In turn, his uniform was burned, medals destroyed, vehicle scrapped, and commission scroll shredded. Despite this, Williams is still entitled to his military pension, amounting to $60,000 annually. Williams refused to pay victim surcharge fines, which are only $8,000, leading to a lawsuit against him by one of his victims. This case was later settled.