Paul Bernardo is a serial killer and serial rapist (the Scarborough Rapist) in Canada, active between 1987 and 1992. Prior to marrying is ex-wife, he had only committed rapes. His wife, Karla Homolka, participated in the murders and helped obtain the girls that would be killed. In the case of Elizabeth Bain’s murder, the defendant, Robert Baltovich’s attorney contended that Bernardo was the actual perpetrator. The following is the police interview about this.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9p877BdxBI&w=560&h=315]
Paul Bernardo Police Interview Transcript
Detective Brad Hoover: My name is, uh, Detective Brad Hoover. Uh, My patch number 6188. I’m with the Toronto Police Sex Crime Unit. Uh, the time now is 2:05 p.m. and we’re presently at the Kingston Penitentiary in Kingston Ontario, uh, in a board room as thick as the main building, you would call it. Um, present in the room here, if I could just have the two of you identify yourself for the purposes of the video tape that’s being made. Seated to my left, off camera, um, now sitting at the table is your counsel? Just, could you please identify yourself?
Counsel Anthony Bryant: Yes, sir. It’s Anthony Bryant.
Detective Brad Hoover: And, uh, straight across the table from me, if you could identify yourself please?
Detective Coulis: [inaudible] Coulis C-O-U-L-I-S Badge number 64834 police service.
Detective Brad Hoover: And seated to my right, if you could just identify yourself please?
Paul Bernardo: Paul Jason Teale AKA Paul Bernardo.
Detective Brad Hoover: And again, my name is Brad Hoover and today is June the 7th of 2007. Mr. Teale, the reason we’re here today is, uh, to speak to you in regards to a couple of incid… a couple of matters. First of all, before we start, I just want you to, um, make sure you are aware that what we say is being videotaped here.
Paul Bernardo: Yeah, I’m aware.
Detective Brad Hoover: I’m just going to start this audio tape. I forgot to do that before. [bang and beep] Uh, just started this audio tape here. We started the interview at 2:05 p.m. My name is, uh, Detective Brad Hoover. Paul, um, you’re not, presently being given a cation or anything. I want you to understand that what you’re saying to us today is voluntary. That means that if you don’t want to talk to us, you don’t have to. Uh, your counsel is present and uh, if you need to speak to him you certainly can but I just want to make sure that you understand that what you say here is voluntary and uh, that we’re interviewing you as a potential witness. Do you understand that?
Paul Bernardo: Yeah.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Uh, just a little bit of background about the first time we met back last year in April 2006. Um, that was in regards to a letter that you had sent to general attorney’s office that filtered down to my office in regards to some admissions you had made about some sexual assaults you had committed. I am here to tell you that I have concluded that investigation and that um, there have been two offences that I have been able to identify and uh, with the information that you provided to me at that time was able to conclude those matters as having been committed by yourself. So, for that I thank you for that information, and…
Paul Bernardo: Um, sorry. You’ve identified [cross talk]
Detective Brad Hoover: Identified the offence. No, no, no, I identified the office you were talking about and uh, based on that information I was able to conclude those cases that, that actually provided enough information that I was satisfied that you were the person the committed those offenses.
Paul Bernardo: Okay. Now what about….
Detective Brad Hoover: That make sense?
Paul Bernardo: And that makes sense. What about ones that you thought that I came forward with and you thought I didn’t do? Was it any of those?
Detective Brad Hoover: There was none that I thought that you didn’t do. There was some that I didn’t have enough information to either identify the offence because, um, you were unable to provide enough details at that time or they may not have ever been reported to the police. Cause you said, when we spoke, some of them were, uh, wouldn’t call them minor offence but, uh…
Paul Bernardo: No, I understand.
Detective Brad Hoover: …offences that may not have been reported the police.
Paul Bernardo: Okay um, problem. Uh, I turned on the TV, waited for Peer Regional to come by. September rolls around, they say, make a public announcement, it’s written on my filed here that uh, that I lied to police and I did not commit the crimes that I said I committed and [inaudible] on Peel Regional. Big problem.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. I’ve spoken to Peel Region…
Paul Bernardo: Yeah.
Detective Brad Hoover: …and they have told me that, uh, they don’t have enough information at this point to identify anything that you’ve, um, the letter that was sent to the police, to through the police, wasn’t specific enough to identify any offences. Now, that’s something we can talk about sort of following this interview. And if you want to get into that, we can talk about that.
Paul Bernardo: Well, I’ve been sitting on this for years [inaudible]. It’s written in my file and it makes me seem like a loony. Just this crazy, you guys love doing that, I’m just this crazy psychopathic liar. Why was that statement an issue? Why didn’t they come in and talk to me if they didn’t have enough information? We were waiting…On that tape, you can play that tape back when I asked you guys if Peel Regional was going to come in. I sat there month after month after month, no one came. I turned on the TV in September, Peel Regional declared Paul Bernardo was, you know, this crazy liar to police. What, what, what’s is the fundamental problem here?
Detective Brad Hover: Well…
Paul Bernardo: No, I mean, I guess that’s just the Canadian way and uh, and, and no one comes in and now you guys are saying you did not have enough information.
Detective Brad Hover: Well, I can’t answer for them specifically as to what they did or didn’t do. Um, I can tell you that, because they are a separate police department I don’t have control over what investigation that they did do. I can tell you I have spoken with the investigator in Peel Region and they have told me that at this point they do not have enough information to move forward. They haven’t been able to identify any offence that we specifically talked about.
Paul Bernardo: That statement you’re giving to me is much different than the public statement that they said which is I’m a liar.
Detective Brad Hover: Okay. Well, I don’t, I don’t…
Paul Bernardo: It’s night and day and they didn’t come in. If they didn’t have enough information, why don’t you come in and get the information? I mean, either I’m lying or I’m not lying, and this goes to the [inaudible] of this argument. Either I’m a liar to you and I’m going to lie to you about everything like I did to Peel Regional according to their story or I’m not. You know, I, I, I just, I just, I’m not going to sit here and come voluntarily, and people come, and you guys ban me from the press. You roll your stories over and you constantly say I’m a liar, I’m a liar. I made mistakes 17 years ago. 17, okay, fine, I did but, but now we’re talking about today and you’re not going to roll forward that I’m some psychopathic liar sitting in jail claiming other people’s responsibilities for other crimes. This is a total cross examination point. You want to start this thing? [inaudible] grab ahold of it. Say “well, you lied about other crimes, you know, he’s a crazy liar.” Why didn’t you guys resolve this?
Detective Brad Hover: And again, I can not answer for what Peel Region did or didn’t do. Um…
Detective Coulis: Jurisdictionally we are kind of bound as to what takes place [crosstalk]
Paul Bernardo: Well, but still, the good guys and the bad guys. You know what I mean? You’re on the same team.
Detective Coulis: Yes, we are but as far as us inv, investigating matters outside of the actual Toronto Proper, um, that’s why Peel Regional has their police service and like Detective Hoover said, we can’t answer as to what they did with their investigations or the issues they were looking at or transpired out in their area and we really can’t speak to that. Now, whether that’s something you wish to have your counsel down the line then that’s sometime else…
Paul Bernardo: Yeah, that’s true.
Detective Coulis: But unfortunately, there’s, we, there wasn’t a lot Detective Hoover and I could do in regards to those things.
Paul Bernardo: Well, [inaudible] they should subpoena the guys from Peel Regional. They could bring in all the facts of where I lied, then, if I’m a liar. That’s what I say to do because either I’m a liar or I’m not a liar and I’m not a liar. But you guys are trying to paint me as one. The public, they, they turn on the TV in September of last year and I’m this crazy liar. Uh, that’s what the TV reported. Not only did they report it there, they wrote it on my file. I’ve got it [inaudible] myself. Paul Bernardo uh, Peel Regional says that Paul Bernardo lied about crimes he didn’t commit, said he did.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um…
Paul Bernardo: I mean, this, this, that’s just awful. I mean, come on.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.
Paul Bernardo: Enough manipulation. You know what I mean? Either I told the truth or otherwise the whole purpose of the interview is stupid because if I’m this crazy liar I would just be sitting here lying to you about everything, right? Right? I mean, why wouldn’t I? I’m just this crazy liar.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. And again, I don’t, I don’t know exactly what was said by Peel Regional and I’m not here to answer to what they said. Either [crosstalk]
Paul Bernardo: You know, it’s, it’s one thing, you know, I’m a human being and, and to say that I’m a dangerous offender, raping and killing and all this stuff, it’s fine. I mean, free publicity deal, get that, tough on crime, get that bad guy. But when it gets to a certain point [inaudible] it just, it affects me totally. You know what I mean? I made mistakes. I made mistakes a long time ago. But don’t say that today about me because then we’re lying, and we have a big problem here because I’m looking at you and you’re the bad guys because I’m not doing anything wrong. I’m telling the truth and you guys are walking around issuing statements that I lied here, I lied there. No?
Detective Coulis: Well, those weren’t statements issued by Detective Hoover and myself or [crosstalk]
Paul Bernardo: Yeah, I know but it’s the attorney general that sent you guys down here. He’s fighting this case. He’s taking this [inaudible] back, right? So, it’s, it’s, really all the, the same organization isn’t it? Attorney general I saw on TV talking about it.
Detective Coulis: But, but this is a separate matter from what those issues…
Paul Bernardo: But it’s still the General Attorney’s office. [laughs]
Detective Coulis: Yeah, it, it, may very well be but um, like I said I can’t speak to anything that Peel Regional does. Say for instance they release to the media because they have….
Paul Bernardo: You know, it’s the same thing. If I’m a liar, take the facts that they have, they come down, they talk to me, any cross examine, any defense lawyer, call them up and show me where I’m lying because you’re not going to find it. Maybe there’s a minor mistake here or there because I think there’s one thing about some, tree, driveway, where the trees were, you know your memory gets a little fuzzy over time but to say that is just ridiculous. Its like you guys didn’t go, uh, you guys polygraph Karla yet? Ask her about it? Nobody from the General Attorney’s office go down there? Nobody cared? Again, it’s the same, I know, but it’s the same problem because you guys are making me out to be a huge liar and, and this is a huge liar and, and…
Detective Brad Hoover: Well, I don’t, I don’t have any doubt as to what you told us before. Ah, the facts that I can verify I believe were true and from what you’ve told me and you haven’t told me any lies yet so I don’t have any personal reason to believe you’re lying to me.
Paul Bernardo: Exactly.
Detective Brad Hoover: So, again…
Paul Bernardo: Exactly but this is a different story than what I have on my file and….
Detective Brad Hoover: And I don’t know what is in your file because I’m not privy to that information or what’s there or what’s not there. I’m just telling you from my perspective and from an investigator perspective, and to what I’ve looked into and to what admissions you made in April last year, to me, you know, I’m satisfied. I’ve done what I can do as far as the investigation. If Peel, if you would like to provide me with more information about the specific occurrences that occurred in Peel Region, then we can talk about that after the, uh, focus of what we are here for today.
Paul Bernardo: But it is, it is part of the focus.
Detective Brad Hoover: It is and it isn’t. I mean, obviously directly we are here today to deal with the Baltovich matter that you’re aware of.
Paul Bernardo: But dealing with me comes down to credibility.
Detective Brad Hoover: Comes down to credibility and absolutely it does and that’s, um, that’s what we’re here to talk about today. So, let’s, let’s deal with that and then we will deal with the other stuff afterwards. Is that okay?
Paul Bernardo: Well, yeah. I was just making my point on it because it’s got to be addressed sometime.
Detective Brad Hoover: Absolutely. It will be.
Paul Bernardo: Well, it should have been dealt with a year and a bit ago. So.
Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah.
Paul Bernardo: Well, not quite a year, actually.
Detective Brad Hoover: A little over a year ago. Um, I have a few, some questions that were, um, that were given to me to ask you in relation to the, um, Baltovich matter, Robert Baltovich matter. Um, before we do that, I just want to say you obviously understand the importance of telling the truth and, and, um, the potential consequences of someone who lies to the police, um, and not telling the truth?
Paul Bernardo: I think we’ve discovered that. Actually, I was referring you guys tell the truth.
Detective Brad Hoover: Right.
Paul Bernardo: [laughs]
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, so we’re aware of that. And, um, in this matter I believe we’ve had some conversations with your counsel and, in regards to it and um, there has been some discussion about polygraph testing in this matter. Is that true or not true or do you recall that?
Paul Bernardo: Wha… [laughs] you’re opening up cans of worms everywhere.
Detective Brad Hoover: No, I’m just asking you a specific question.
Paul Bernardo: You know that goes back to you guys polygraph [inaudible]. You guys didn’t polygraph Karla and haven’t in the two years since. Have you guys gone down there and asked her? Have you settled that matter with it? Because you can say that I lied or whatever about a polygraph, but have you asked her? Because if, it comes down to a lot of that issue. I mean, have you asked her? General attorney [cross talk]
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, let me tell you a little bit. My involvement with this overall investigation of the Baltovich is very limited. Uh, the only knowledge that I have, as to what investigation has been done or hasn’t been done is related to the conversations I’ve had with this interview here today.
Paul Bernardo: Okay.
Detective Brad Hoover: Um, who or what other witnesses there are I don’t know.
Paul Bernardo: An answer your question, an answer your question, I don’t want to go off on tangents, but all these issues are relevant. I know you don’t think they are, but they are. An answer to your question is we had some discussion on it but when [inaudible] and Peel PD came down before Karla was released I told them I would be willing to take a polygraph on anything and everything, would you in turn, are you going to go down before you release Karla, just to ask her. She’s not going to take it she’s going to fail on all these issues. [inaudible] blah blah blah.
Detective Brad Hoover: Right.
Paul Bernardo: Did [inaudible] happen in July? Was the girl in January actually to kidnapped [inaudible]. Picked up somebody in the bar that she tried to [inaudible] roll over and all, all these other issues, all relevant. All relevant and, and, so then I addressed it to you guys when you came back again, uh, last year. I said “yeah, I’ll take a polygraph on anything because I’m not telling a lie on a thing”. Are you, have you, again I ask the question, have you guys gone down there? I mean, I know Karla’s free now. I’m not in the business of disciplinary [inaudible] it’s not my thing but my point was did you ask her the question just so we get the story straight. I mean, if she refuses, well, there’s, there’s a reason why she’s refusing. And again, you guys couldn’t provide an answer. And now almost a year later, and again you don’t provide an answer. So, I mean, you know, I don’t know what you’re asking me. You asking me to take a polygraph when you’re not willing to ask her?
Detective Brad Hoover: Well, again this, this, my part in this investigation is, is limited to what we’re seeing here today so, so the details of all of what other witnesses may or may not have been [inaudible] or done, I don’t know. And as a potential witness I’m not allowed to tell you what I’ve…
Paul Bernardo: Well, yeah.
Detective Brad Hoover: …done. So, that, I have to sort of be careful about the way that’s answered or even what you think my answer might be.
Paul Bernardo: Yeah, no, I just, just wanted for the record that I gave you good information in which you guys could’ve, independent of me, could have verified my story or not.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.
Paul Bernardo: And whether you guys do or do not is not my business. Like I said I’m not a prosecutor.
Detective Brad Hoover: Right.
Paul Bernardo: I’m not here to point my finger at anyone but I showed you guys where to go so if you guys don’t do that it’s your business. But, you know, to me, it’s like, if you didn’t, why didn’t you if you guys want the truth about things?
Detective Brad Hoover: Right, so, I understand that. And I understand what you’re saying so, um, what we’re here to talk about today, uh, obviously you know that this statement uh, may be used in court or may be [inaudible] to court as a voluntary statement.
Paul Bernardo: Yeah.
Detective Brad Hoover: A polygraph obviously is not uh, something that is court admissible. I’m not sure if you’re aware of that or not.
Paul Bernardo: Yeah, I am.
Detective Brad Hoover: It’s not used in court. Okay, um, so the crux of what we’re here to talk about is it’s been suggested that, um, in the continuing investigation of Elizabeth Bain, and the charge of murder against Robert Baltovich, that you are the alternative suspect or an alternative suspect. Are you aware of that?
Paul Bernardo: Yeah, yeah.
Detective Brad Hoover: Um, did you kill Elizabeth Bain on June 19 of 1990?
Paul Bernardo: Well, that’s a loaded question. I mean, are we going to go back and, and, and go through the time sequence of what happened in my life? I mean, I could just give a yes or no answer, but you know, there’s a lot of issues about that.
Detective Brad Hover: Right.
Paul Bernardo: You know Karla my [inaudible] who did what, where, when. This is why I said did you guys go down there to get a polygraph to see if she’s telling the truth about it. Why didn’t they do it in the first place? I mean, polygraphed everyone in the Camaro, why not make a deal with someone and not give them a polygraph. It’s incomprehensible to me. Now I’m sitting, my file says her version and it’s a lie. You know? You know what I mean?
Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah.
Paul Bernardo: I, I, you know, I’m not making frivolous points. I mean, now you’re asking me, after you said, Peel Regional said I’m lying about this and then you’re saying I’m lying about my profile, you’re saying I’m lying about if I’m better or not. Now you’re saying, “hey did you kill this person?” Well you’re saying I’m lying here, here, here. I could say “no I didn’t” but I mean, you already said I lied here with Peel, you’re saying…
Detective Brad Hoover: No, I’m not saying, I’m not saying anything about who’s lying. I’m simply…
Paul Bernardo: And I’ve given you directions to go find the truth. I’ve always done that.
Detective Brad Hoover: Right and I’ve, I’ve asked, again I’ve told you that I’ve done investigations on information that you’ve told me, and as a result of that information I’ve been able to verify. In my mind you’ve told me the truth. So, if Peel Regional is lying about you or someone else is lying about you, I have no control over that or know…
Paul Bernardo: That goes right back to credibility.
Detective Brad Hoover: Well, absolutely it does and that’s, I guess, the, the easy way [inaudible] if we can go through, we answer the questions and yes, I hope to be able to go through some time line to identify where you were, what you were doing specifically in relation to this case.
Paul Bernardo: Anyways, I know I’m giving you guys a hard time about some things, but I mean, really, I’m a human being and when you guys do all these things, I got to…anyways, I’ll try to [inaudible]. Anyways the answer to that is no but, the 800lb gorilla in the room, that’s a 25 to life sentence. You know? It really comes down to credibility.
Detective Brad Hoover: Right.
Paul Bernardo: And not only credibility, timeline and between what Karla and my rules were respectively. The answer to that is no.
Detective Brad Hoover: Um, did you have anything to do with her disappearance?
Paul Bernardo: No.
Detective Brad Hoover: Did you know Elizabeth Bain?
Paul Bernardo: Not that I know of.
Detective Brad Hoover: Had you ever met her?
Paul Bernardo: I could answer that with a “I don’t remember” because if I did or if I didn’t, I don’t remember. I know an ex-girlfriend tried to say but like I said, I don’t remember.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Um, you are obviously aware of her disappearance…
Paul Bernardo: Yeah, sort of.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, do you recall when you became aware of this?
Paul Bernardo: [sighs] Best that I can best recollect is after September. Didn’t follow the news much.
Detective Brad Hoover: Um, the date, obviously, June the 19th , 1990 was [crosstalk]
Paul Bernardo: But, but, but you know, other, other than that, I don’t remember. You know what I mean? I heard about it before, but I can’t recall…
Detective Brad Hoover: You can’t recall…
Paul Bernardo: …if I did or not, but I remember in jail I had news papers after that fact. I saw something on that sort.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um, we’ll, we’ll sort of get into that in a little bit when we, uh, hope to go through a bit of a timeline with you as to some things that may jog your memory as to…
Paul Bernardo: Now we’re talking.
Detective Brad Hoover: …um, back in that time. I mean, if you asked me what I was doing three weeks ago on Tuesday I probably couldn’t tell you unless you put some reference to it. So, we’ll hopefully be able to do that. Um, and again, obviously June the 19th, 1990, do you know what you were doing that day?
Paul Bernardo: [laughs] No, I have no idea.
Detective Brad Hoover: Um, I, I have a document here in front of me that uh, references some points in time around this June of 1990 from police investigation. This is what um, indicates you may have been involved with or may have, certain things you may have done that… I’d like to go over a couple of them that um, sort of made, sort of assist you in remembering what you were doing back in 1990. Um, the first part of June, 1990, actually June the 1st, Karla had uh doctors appointment um, where she was complaining of pains in her right side. Um, perhaps she had something to do with a rabies shot. Does that ring any bells?
Paul Bernardo: Not at all.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Um. In the first part of June you had a Nissan 40SX. Is that correct?
Paul Bernardo: Yeah.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. You were making several trips into the United States. Uh, June 2nd, June 3rd, June 10th, June 16th . I think at that point you were involved with cigarette smuggling and things like that. From what I recall, someone said no.
Paul Bernardo: That would be no. That wasn’t until after we moved out so.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Um, making a couple of trips to the States within a couple days, that, that’s something [crosstalk]
Paul Bernardo: When we started the relationship, we were going over all the time so. Just for personal reasons though.
Detective Brad Hoover: Um, on June the 16th you shopped at Ruff Hewn, is that, in the Niagara Falls United States, is, that store sound familiar to you?
Paul Bernardo: Yes, it sounds familiar. I have no idea about those are the dates but…
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.
Paul Bernardo: If you got a receipt for it…
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, I think there must be a receipt there. And again, I don’t have all of the details. I’m just doing by what’s on this sheet of paper. Um, a black expandable binder, is that…
Paul Bernardo: I think. I can’t recall one hundred percent but…
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. That would have been around the same time. That was about a week prior to, if you purchased one of those, um, Elizabeth Bain going missing.
Paul Bernardo: I have no idea when I purchased it. I just…
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay.
Paul Bernardo: …recall I had something like that. Like an according binder type thing.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um, June, June the 16th, again that would be the same day, the same [inaudible] you attended a movie, um, Back to the Future 3. Do you recall when that movie came out?
Paul Bernardo: [laugh] No.
Detective Brad Hoover: Um, there’s a receipt for a cell phone purchased at Radio Shack at the Town and Country Mall at 6366 Young Street. Remember buying a cellphone?
Paul Bernardo: Oh, you know, I bought a cellphone around that time because when I declared bankruptcy [inaudible], I bought the, the, Radio Shack one. I don’t know the dates…
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, that would have been the day after Elizabeth Bain went missing. Uh, do you remember anything you were involved with around that time? You said you were going bankrupt so what type of activity were you involved in on a day to day basis?
Paul Bernardo: The only reason I remember bankruptcy is that happened uh, uh, around, a couple days before the, the, sexual assault type thing [inaudible]. If I recollect collectly, correctly, it was two days before I, I, filed for that. But I couldn’t even tell you that date, I just know it was sometime in… What, what date did you say that was? June the…
Detective Brad Hoover: June the, uh, 16th of 1990.
Paul Bernardo: When was that sexual assault, uh the one with the [inaudible]. Was it 24th? 24th? What date do you guys have for that?
Detective Brad Hover: Um, there was one, there was a sexual assault in May of 1990.
Paul Bernardo: Is that the [inaudible] one in [inaudible]?
Detective Brad Hoover: I think that it is but it doesn’t say that specifically here but shortly after that, um…
Paul Bernardo: My timeline’s off.
Detective Brad Hoover: Um, the end of June of 1990 that was the original, when someone identified you actually as the Scarborough rapist.
Paul Bernardo: What? The end of…?
Detective Brad Hoover: That was the end of June 1990. Um, Laurie Homolka’s 19th birthday was June the 22nd of 1990. Do you recall her going to her birthday?
Paul Bernardo: No, I know, I know it was around that time, but I don’t specifically recall that.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. The only reason [inaudible] people drinking [inaudible] perhaps. [inaudible]
Paul Bernardo: [shakes head “no”]
Detective Brad Hover: [inaudible]
Paul Bernardo: [inaudible] so.
Detective Brad Hoover: Um. June the 21st, so just, just a day after you bought the cell phone, um, you may have purchased…
Paul Bernardo: I’m sorry, you saying June 19th was this girl’s…
Detective Brad Hoover: June 19th was the day she went missing.
Paul Bernardo: What day did I buy that…
Detective Brad Hoover: June 20th was the day you bought the cell phone. Uh, June 24th…
Paul Bernardo: See, I must, I must have filed bankruptcy around then because I got that cellphone [inaudible]. I had to hand my, all my, uh, items in, uh, to the trustee and I had a cell phone, so I went in and got a Radio Shack one. So, it would have been right around the same time. I don’t think I went a month without it. I don’t think so. I might have but I, but anyways, I don’t know. It was a while ago, so memories are fuzzy.
Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah. May the 29th, so that was just before that, or about a month before that, that was the day police released the commons.
Paul Bernardo: Oh, so it was May. [inaudible]
Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah, so that was, uh…
Paul Bernardo: See what happens when you lock a guy up for 15 years then bring this all up? [laughs] Memory gets fuzzy. So, I guess I waited a month to get the cellphone.
Detective Brad Hoover: About a month to get the cellphone. Do you recall anything, what you were, what you were doing during that month? Anything….
Paul Bernardo: Probably the same thing it says there. Going across the border, back and forth, recreational stuff. I know Tammy happened in July. Um, that was [inaudible] in July for the first time. But this was back a few months.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um…
Paul Bernardo: Maybe [inaudible]
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. So just prior to Tammy’s birthday there was some shopping at a Canadian tire store.
Paul Bernardo: Laurie’s birthday.
Detective Brad Hoover: Sorry, Laurie’s, uh, birthday. Um, two times in one day you went to a tire store on Sheppard avenue. 1019 Sheppard Avenue. [Bernardo shrugs signifying “I don’t know”] Do you normally shop at Canadian tire stores?
Paul Bernardo: Back then [inaudible]. That’s before all of these super centers and Wal-Marts and stuff [inaudible] so…
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay, um, do you ever recall having any conversations um, about the disappearance of Elizabeth Bain?
Paul Bernardo: No.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. If I, if I played you, um, a short audio clip, um, it’s uh, conversation that you had, or conversation between Moore who was an investigator with the Toronto Police and Karla Homolka. I’m just going to play this. See if this, uh, sounds familiar or if it jogs your memory as to any conversation you may have had.
Karla Homolka: Um, I think the only thing he ever said about her was that her boyfriend did it or something like that but there wasn’t any real extensive discussion. But he talked about like all, all the women disappearing.
Detective Brad Hoover: And again, that, that was a conversation between, uh, investigator Tony Moore with Toronto Police Service and Karla Homolka. Does that conversation, does, that something you may recall saying that to Karla or talking about that?
Paul Bernardo: Well, you know, she went down with “Paul did it”. Catch phrase for the trial was “Paul did it, it was Paul” and this is, she’s continuing right there. She’s, you know, [inaudible]. The fact of the matter was I didn’t pay attention to any of it. I didn’t watch the news back then. I was too busy doing other things. I didn’t pay attention. The profile is “serial killer pays attention to the news and media, narcissistic personality blah blah blah” all that crap. I don’t know anything about this case now. I don’t know if this guy did it. I don’t even really care. I’m not the prosecutor, you know, do the right thing for society, blah blah blah. I don’t know if he did it. I don’t know the facts behind if he did it and I certainly didn’t back then. So, to say that, for me to, she’s alleging that I made a statement “the boyfriend did it”. Well, you know, some cases I have followed because I am in jail and I have nothing to do but watch the TV. But I weigh the facts. You know, I take, you know, did OJ do it, for example.
Detective Brad Hoover: Right.
Paul Bernardo: You weigh the facts about whether he did or didn’t. He got out so that’s the law, but I would have to weigh the facts. I don’t know the facts of this circumstances so there’s no way I could make a statement such as that. How could I say he did it if I don’t know the facts of the case? So, no, she’s, she’s, she’s incorrect in her statement.
Detective Brad Hoover: And it may depend on when that conversation took place between her and that investigator.
Paul Bernardo: Well, Moore, wasn’t he back when that deal was made? Moore, I remember reading on transcripts [inaudible] from day one. When she signed her little twelve year deal, no polygraph required. Hey, [laughs] I’m giving you guys the truth here. You guys could prove me wrong, go down there, ask her, you’ll get a “no”, I keep telling you, no one does it. But um, I don’t know why. But you know, that sounds like a conversation, that’s what you do, pin it all on the other person, you know, you paint that scenario. [inaudible]
Detective Brad Hoover: Um, do you, do you know of Robert Baltovich.
Paul Bernardo: I’ve seen him on, you know, [inaudible] T.V. or whatever. Like I said, I purposely avoided this case.
Detective Brad Hover: Alright.
Paul Bernardo: I don’t, I don’t like up, this shit on my mind. You know what I mean? Needing to, you know…Unfortunately when Karla came on I watched to sort of discern truth from fiction a couple years ago but otherwise I don’t like to get into these things. I have had a hundred lifetimes of this stuff. You know, so, and I don’t want my mind poisoned with this and this and this. So, this case I avoided as much as possible, but I have seen his face on the T.V.
Detective Brad Hoover: Right. Anything else you would like to tell us about this investigation?
Paul Bernardo: No.
Detective Brad Hoover: Okay the time now is uh 2:35 and we’ll conclude this portion of the interview.
Williams’s sister, Tabitha Hollingsworth, noted that the behavioral and emotional problems started young and recalled Williams attempting suicide. Brenda Williams, Lamora Williams’s mother, said that she was a slow learner to the extent that she had to be pulled out of public school to be homeschooled.
When Penn broke it off with Williams, Williams’s mother told Penn that “something tragic was going to happen to those kids, she’s going to do something to herself”. Williams’s mother also tried to get custody of Williams’s children or otherwise have them removed from Williams’s care after Williams’s father’s death. In a call to the Division of Family and Children Services, Williams’s mother expressed concern about her daughter’s mental health and was worried that she was not feeding her children. This concern is backed up by Williams’s sister stating that Williams regularly left the toddler children alone.
her children with her cousin (then changed it to sister) and found her children dead when she returned home from work. She stated that one child was trapped underneath a “pulled over” oven, both burned, and claimed there were “brains on the floor”. During the same 911 call, Williams showed great worry over going to jail and asked the dispatcher to reassure her about the possibility of going to jail. The 
to children in the first degree, cruelty to children in the second degree and making a false statement. Prosecutors believe that Williams may have burnt her two youngest children in an attempt to conceal how she murdered them. Williams pleaded not guilty to the charges. In the aftermath, Williams’s sister expressed concern and stated that Williams should be placed on suicide watch in the jail. Williams’s mother holds her daughter accountable for her actions while still recognizing that she had problems. She has stated that she may need to seek help herself after losing her “two youngest grand kids because of the actions of her daughter” and that it has been very difficult.