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Case Summary

Israel Keyes Extended Summary

Israel Keyes was a serial killer, bank robber, arsonist, and burglar whose crimes spanned many states within the United States and occurred as far back as 1996 until shortly before his arrest on March 13th, 2012. This case is unusual because of the meticulous care taken to cover his tracks, and him choosing victims at random. For example, in one case he flew from Alaska to Chicago, rented a car, and drove 1,000 miles to Vermont before he picked his victims at random and used a “kill kit” he had hidden in the area years prior. His kill kits often contained materials to dispose of bodies, weapons, and money he obtained through bank robberies. The details of many of his murders are still unknown and authorities are still investigating them to this day. Keyes died via suicide while waiting for his trial for kidnapping and murdering Samantha Koenig.

Early Years and Family

Keyes was born on January 7, 1978, to a large Mormon family, in Cove, Utah. The second of 10 children, Keyes, and the other children were homeschooled. When Keyes was between 3 and 4 years old, his family deconverted from Mormonism and began practicing a radical Fundamental Christian faith that Keyes described as a more “militia type of church”. The family attended at least two churches, the Ark, and the Christian Israel Covenant Church, that taught “Christian Identity”, an ideology that is known to be antisemitic and racist.

Between 3 and 5 years old, around the time of the religious conversion, Keyes and his family relocated to Colville, Washington area where they lived an “Amish” lifestyle. They lived in a one-room cabin that Keyes’s father built without running water or electricity. It was here that the Keyes family became friends with Chevie Kehoe’s family, who committed 3 murders in 1996. By his teenage years, Keyes lost his faith in Christianity and temporarily became interested in Satanism.

At some point, Keyes was disowned by his father and not permitted to see his mother for an extended period of time. His relationship was often “hot and cold” with his family for many reasons including his atheism, his choice in women, and joining the military. By the time of Keyes’s father’s death in 2003 or 2004, Keyes and his father were on “ok” terms.  

Work History

On July 9th, 1998, when Keyes was 20 years old, he was processed out of Albany, NY into the United States Army and served until 2001. He served at Fort Lewis and Fort Hood and had a temporary duty assignment in Egypt between January 15th and June 1st, 2000. Keyes was awarded several military decorations and was discharged at the rank of specialist.

Keyes graduating Air Assault School Gin 1999

Former Army buddies described Keyes as being quiet and reserved but noted that he drank excessively on the weekends and liked the horrorcore group Insane Clown Posse. During their tour in Egypt, after being teased about his “Amish” upbringing, his Army friends branded a pentagram on him while they were all drinking.

At some point, Keyes applied to the Police for Port Gamble S’Klallam Tribe to become an officer but was never hired on. In 2002, Keyes was interviewed for a position at the Neah Bay Tribe’s Park and Recreation and was hired. A coworker there said that Keyes was a good worker, had superb carpentry and mechanic skills, and that they eventually became friends through their mutual love for NFL football. They would hang out, drink together, and have barbeques. This coworker also described a time where Keyes branded the anarchist’s “A” on his chest with a coat hanger and a propane torch while they hung out at Keyes house.

After relocating to Anchorage, Alaska, Keyes started a construction business in 2007 called Keyes Construction. Through his company he would work as a contractor, handyman, and construction worker. He kept this business until his arrest.

Relationship and Parenthood

In December of 2000, while Keyes was stationed in Fort Lewis, Keyes met his future wife through a phone chat line. They began dating and within 2 months she found herself pregnant with Keyes child, having already had an older son from a prior relationship. Initially, Keyes did not want them to keep the baby. Soon afterwards though, they made up and decided to keep the baby. Keyes then moved to Neah Bay to support her since she was not working at the time.

By the December of the next year, Keyes became engaged to her. His fiancé noted that Keyes was very tight with money but was not the jealous type, watched normal pornography and had no unusual fetishes, and was never violent. She went so far as to say that she would try to “push his buttons” to get a reaction but could never get one.

By May of 2004, they broke up and he moved into his own house in Neah Bay, though they still continued to see each other casually. Keyes had a few girlfriends before finding his next long-term relationship in 2005, which whom he stayed with until his arrest. In 2007 his girlfriend moved up to Anchorage, Alaska for a job opportunity, and 6 months later Keyes followed her there with his daughter.

Keyes is reported to have had a great relationship with his daughter. A coworker of his said that he was very protective of his daughter. So much so that he said the way that he knew that Keyes trusted him was that Keyes had let him drive his daughter to the airport one time. He would regularly be the one to do his daughter’s hair, often in pigtails or French braids, a skill he acquired from his sisters in childhood.

 Everyone, including exes, friends, and coworkers described him as an excellent worker, good boyfriend or husband, and great father with no signs of aggression or criminal behavior.

Samantha Koenig

On February 1st, 2012, Samantha Koenig was working alone at the Common Grounds Coffee Stand in Anchorage, Alaska near the intersection of Tudor Road and Fairbanks Street.

Samantha Koenig

At approximately 10:00 p.m., Keyes parked his truck across Tudor Road in a Home Depot parking lot and walked over to the coffee stand, threatening Samantha with a gun. He then proceeded to climb through the window, robbed the coffee stand, and led Samantha out of the small building after binding her hands with zip ties. She managed to escape his grasp while on Tudor Road, where Keyes had to chase and tackle her and held the gun to her side to get her to his vehicle.

At 10:33 p.m. Samantha’s boyfriend arrived at the coffee stand to pick her up after work, but the Common Ground Coffee Stand seemed to be closed without any sign of Samantha. The lights were off, and the stand appeared to be locked up for the night. Her boyfriend tried to text and call her without a response.

Common Grounds Coffee Stand

While out of state, Samantha’s boss checked his internet-based security system only to find that Samantha had been abducted. Security system footage showed Samantha putting her hands up as a sign of submission, giving Keyes the money out of her register, then Keyes climbing through the window and leading her away at gunpoint. Authorities were then alerted.

At 11:24 p.m., Samantha’s boyfriend got a text that said “F U asshole I know what u did I am going to spend a couple of days with friends need time to think plan actig weird let my dad know”. Based on the way the text was written, spelling errors, and phrases used, Samantha’s boyfriend did not think she was responsible for the text he received from her phone. At 11:53 p.m. he got another text that said only “F U”. He tried texting and calling more but did not get a response.

About 3 hours later at 3:00 a.m. on February 2, 2012, Samantha’s boyfriend witnessed Keyes outside of his house rummaging through his and Samantha’s shared vehicle with a mask on. He did not think the two incidents were related and had not yet known that Samantha had been kidnapped. Stolen from the vehicle was Samantha’s driver’s license and his Credit Union One debit card that went to a shared account with Samantha. Approximately 30 minutes later, Keyes attempted to withdraw money from a local ATM wearing a black hoodie, sunglasses, and black gloves.

Keyes’s house in Alaska, with shed where murder occurred

Keyes drove around with Samantha in his truck for a couple of hours, only stopping at a local Anchorage park to use cable ties to secure Samantha to a bench in his truck. When he deemed it late enough that he would not be detected by his girlfriend or neighbors, he brought Samantha to a shed in front of his garage at his house that he had set up two days before anticipating abducting someone. He had put down a tarp, a foam mat, a sleeping bag, two space heaters, and a radio.

Once Keyes got Samantha into the shed, Keyes bound her with zip ties and rope, and proceeding to sexually assault her over a few hours. After the sexual assault, Keyes murdered Samantha then wrapped her in a tarp and placed her inside of a cabinet that was inside of the shed.

Immediately after Samantha’s murder, Keyes went inside, took a shower, got his daughter ready for their flight from Alaska to Huston Texas, and called a cab to the airport. Keyes then purchased a rental vehicle in Texas, which he put 2847 miles on, and drove to Lafayette, Louisiana. At the same time as he was arriving at Lafayette, Louisiana, Anchorage Police Department was requesting assistance from the FBI in identifying Samantha’s kidnapper.

In Louisiana, Keyes and his daughter went to a “kid’s Mardi Gras” before going on a 5-day cruise on the 6th of February. This Carnival Cruise from New Orleans was not unexpected, with his daughter’s mother being aware of it for months ahead of time. The night before, Keyes’s daughter’s mother called and noted that nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Her daughter just told her that they were packing for their trip. Despite how normal everything seemed, Keyes would abduct and murder Samantha a couple hours later. After returning from the cruise, Keyes and his daughter spent time with family in Texas.

On February 13th, Keyes left his family’s home in Texas before the sun rose, leaving a note on the bed saying that he had to fix his windshield and find a place to hide his guns. His family texted him from the shared family phone and said that they could bring his guns to someone’s house for him, but he did not respond. The next time the family was able to get ahold of him was at nighttime when he said that he was “stuck in the middle of nowhere”. The family tried to text him several times offering to pick him up but didn’t hear anything from him again until the following evening when he asked to be picked up. Despite going to where he said, they could not find him, and his family ended up sleeping in their van in the parking lot of a mall in Cleburne waiting for him. The following morning, on the 15th of February, he called and said he was on the other side of the mall. When they found him he said he had run out of gas, had gotten his rental vehicle stuck in the mud, his cards had been frozen, and he had not eaten or slept in two days.

National Bank of Texas Robbery, February 16th, 2012

On the 16th after getting back to his family’s residence he rescheduled his and his daughter’s flight to Alaska since he caused them to miss it. After getting new tickets for February 18th, Keyes left his family’s house and did not return for several hours. This was later determined to be because he was robbing the National Bank of Texas in Azle, as well as taking jewelry from a home before lighting it on fire, burning the 3500 square foot home to the ground. That evening, he met with members of his family’s church. The following day he was not present at his family’s home, and then the next day on the 18th he flew back to Alaska with his daughter.

When Keyes returned to Alaska, Samantha’s father had already been heavily fundraising for his daughter’s return or any information regarding her disappearance on Facebook. He explicitly told the public that he would give all of the raised money, no questions asked, to the kidnapper for Samantha’s safe return. One of his Facebook posts stated “…WHOEVER HAS MY DAUGHTER JUST RING HER ANYWHERE, TO A HOSPITAL, HOMES, SEND HER IN A CAB HOME ANONYMOUSLY, AND I WILL LEAVE ALL THE MONEY WE HAVE COLLECTED IN A CERTAIN PLACE OF YOUR CHOOSING WITHIN MINUTES OF YOUR INSTRUCTIONS, JUST RETURN HER TO ME.”

Photo on the back of ransom note depicting Samantha’s body posed to seem alive

Keyes removed Samantha’s body from the cabinet and used a hair blow dryer to thaw her body. He posed her body to make it appear as though she was still alive, which included sewing her eyes open with fishing line. He styled her hair and used her makeup that was in her purse to make it appear as if she was not already deceased. He then took a photograph of her with a 4-day old copy of the Anchorage Daily News newspaper. After printing out the photo with a color ink jet printer, he used a type writer to write a ransom note on the back. After this was completed, Keyes placed plastic on the floor and portions of the walls before dismembering Samantha’s body. He then spent several days disposing her body in Matanuska Lake.

After disposing of her body, Keyes removed the cabinets and portions of the flooring and insulation to get rid of blood evidence before replacing the floor. He also burned Samantha’s clothing and purse, a bloody sleeping bag from the assault, and wood from inside of the shed.

Text Keyes sent from Samantha’s Phone

On February 23, 2012, Keyes again texted Samantha’s boyfriend from Samantha’s phone and gave him instructions on how to find the ransom note. Samantha’s boyfriend then called Samantha’s father who called the police. The ransom note and picture was found at Conner’s Bog Park in Anchorage under a missing dog flyer for a dog named “Albert” as the text message said. The ransom demanded $30,000 and did not threaten any consequence if the ransom was not met. Instead, it said that in exchange for the ransom, the boyfriend would receive a text that gave the location of a packet of information that would give law enforcement all of the information they needed to know to find Samantha.  The note also included her boyfriend’s debit card number. The note read in part that “I may not use the card much in AK due to small pop but as I will be leaving soon, I will be using it all over” and “she almost got away twice, once on Tudor and once in the desert. Must be losing my touch”.

On February 29, 2012, Samantha’s father deposited $5,000 into the account. At 10:13 p.m. Keyes sat in his girlfriend’s 2007 Nissan Xterra for several minutes outside of an ATM before a failed attempt at withdrawing the ransom money wearing facemask, glasses, and dark clothes. At 11:56 p.m., he successfully withdrew $500 at another ATM in Anchorage.

Security photo of Keyes at ATM in Shephard, Texas

About a week later, Keyes flew his daughter and himself to Las Vegas, Nevada before renting a white Ford Focus at the airport and driving south to go to his sister’s wedding in Wells, Texas. On his drive, he used Samantha’s boyfriend’s debit card in Willcox, Arizona, Lordburg, New Mexico, Humble, Texas, and Shephard, Texas.

On March 8th, 2012, Keyes and his daughter arrived at his mother’s house at 10 p.m. in preparation for the wedding. He explained that he drove from Los Vegas to Texas because the plane ticket to Los Vegas was the cheapest he could find. Keyes also told his family that his girlfriend had to work and that’s why she would not be attending the wedding. On March 13th, Keyes was apprehended by authorities in Texas.

Other Crimes and Murders

Keyes has admitted to other crimes, including having murdered 8 other victims. His death has complicated solving many of the crimes, but his DNA is on file.

Keyes is suspected to have burglarized upwards of 30 homes across the United States including one confirmed in Texas that he lit on fire. On top of the bank robbery in Texas the same day as the Texas burglary, Keyes has also been confirmed to be the perpetrator of a bank robbery in Tupper Lake, New York in April 2009. Other bank robberies are possible. It is also believed by authorities that there are several more “kill kits” hidden around the country.

“Kill kit” found by authorities in New York that included a .22 caliber Ruger weapon, empty magazines, ammunition, and a silencer, among other things

Keyes’s first known violent crime is thought to have occurred between June 1st and September 1st of 1997 where he abducted and raped an unknown female near Maupin, Oregon. Keyes also admitted to murdering a person in upstate New York in April 2009. Authorities find his admission credible, noting that Keyes has ties to New York and owns 10 acres and a run-down cabin in Constable, NY, and had been confirmed to have committed a bank robbery around the same time.  It is also believed that he murdered a couple and an unrelated victim in two separate incidents in Washington State.

The FBI has asked for the help of the public in solving cases relating to Keyes. They have published his known movements that can be found here. It may prove useful to look at his travel history to determine where and when he likely committed a serious crime. For example, between February 6th and February 13th, 2004, Keyes rented a silver Volkswagen Jetta with the license plate 267WVW from Enterprise in Salt Lake City, Utah, and then drove 522 miles despite not having permission to leave the state from the rental company. Again 6 months later between October 6th and October 15th, 2004, Keyes took a Southwest Airlines flight to Manchester New Hampshire from Washington, then rented a Kia Amani (license plate 1230139) and drove 1,745 miles, this time getting permission to cross states lines first. Given his history with traveling far distances to commit his crimes, it is likely that he committed a serious crime during these time periods.

Murder of Bill and Lorraine Currier

On June 2nd, 2011, Keyes flew from Anchorage, Alaska to Chicago, Illinois through Alaska Airlines, then rented a vehicle in Des Plaines, Illinois which he drove all the way to Essex, Vermont. Here, Keyes retrieved a “murder kit” he had hidden two years prior and then looked for an ideal place to target. Some items in the cache included premade ligatures, a propane camp stove, several bottles of water, duct tape, and latex gloves.

Bill and Lorraine Currier

Bill and Lorraine Currier were a middle-aged married couple who lived in Burlington, Vermont. On June 8th, 2011, Keyes broke into the Currier’s house and bound them before bringing them to an abandoned farmhouse that he scoped out the day before.

Interior door from the garage of the Currier’s home

He brought Bill to the basement and shot him in the head when he yelled out “where is my wife?” before he sexually assaulted and strangled Lorraine in an upstairs bedroom. Their bodies were never located, though the place he indicated the bodies would be had been demolished. After the murders, he relocated his kill kit to Parishville, New York where authorities retrieved it after he confessed to where that particular kill kit was. Several more are thought to still exist.

After returning the rental vehicle, Keyes took a Continental Airlines flight from Chicago, Illinois to San Francisco, California before flying back to Anchorage, Alaska a few days later.

Arrest, Imprisonment, and Death

Israel Keyes’s Arrest

On March 13th, 2012, Texas Highway Patrol located a vehicle matching the description of his rental vehicle at a Quality Inn & Suites parking lot in Lufkin Texas. Since it was the only hotel near the last place he had tried to use Samantha’s boyfriend’s debit card, authorities had already asked for the house list from the hotel’s front desk. Texas ranger Steven Rayburn informed the Texas Department of Public Safety of his find before doing a visual inspection and finding that there was a barcode sticker on the vehicle typical of rental vehicles. He also noticed pink clothing that he assumed was a woman’s belongings. He then maintained surveillance of the vehicle. Within 15 minutes, Keyes exited room number 215, and put items in the rental’s trunk. Police determined that room 215 was registered to an “Elijah Keyes”, an alias Keyes was using. Shortly after, Texas ranger Rayburn pulled Keyes over under the suspicion of the Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas fraudulent ATM withdraws, along with speeding.

Keyes soon became agitated and nervous, sweating profusely. Keyes then stated that if he was going to be kept much longer he wanted to call his brother who had his daughter in another vehicle. Texas ranger Rayburn suggested that Keyes do that since he would not be able to leave anytime soon. On Keyes, authorities found Samantha’s boyfriend’s debit card.

Pictures found under Keyes’s body

Four days later Keyes admitted to using the card but claimed that an unknown person had left a bag which contained Samantha’s cellphone and her boyfriend’s debit card in the bed of his truck while it was parked in his driveway. Obviously, this was not true. Soon after, he began actually admitting his crimes. Since much of what he has told authorities has been confirmed, his confessions are deemed credible. Despite this, Keyes was very careful about what he said so that he could use his divulging of information to his benefit. He wanted the death penalty and to not be tried for other crimes besides Samantha’s, as well as keeping the information of the cases away from the media to protect his daughter. Before he could confess to everything, Keyes committed suicide just two days after telling investigators that he was becoming impatient with the process and that he was displeased about information being leaked to the media directly after he confessed it to them. Under his body authorities found a suicide letter than gave no new clues and 12 pictures painted in Keyes’s blood, thought to represent his 11 victims and himself.

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Case Summary Uncategorized

Russell Williams Case Summary

Image result for Russell williams underwearRussell Williams is a formal colonel in the Canadian Forces. He has been convicted of sexual assault, two counts of first-degree murder, two counts of forcible confinement, and 84 counts of breaking and entering after confessing to the crimes on February 7, 2010 during a transcribed police interview. His crimes were fetish motivated. On October 21, 2010, he was sentenced to two life sentences, four 10-year sentences, and eighty-two 1-year sentences to be served concurrently. The earliest he can be paroled from the maximum-security prison Port-Cartier Institution will be at age 72.

Background

Russell Williams emigrated from England to Canada as a young child. His parents divorced when he was 6 years old and his mother remarried.Young Russell After completing high school, he obtained his Bachelor of Arts degree in economics and political science from the University of Toronto Scarborough. The following year, Russell Williams enrolled in the Canadian Forces. In 1991 he was promoted to Captain and married Mary Harriman. He was entrusted with flying government officials and foreign leaders, and in 1999 he was promoted to Major. In 2004, Williams obtained a Master of Defense degree from the Royal Military College of Canada and further promoted to lieutenant. Finally, a year prior to his arrest, he was promoted to colonel.

 

 Crimes and Victims

*The following may be disturbing to some readers. Details of sexual assault and murder are discussed below. Reader discretion is advised.*

Williams’s fetish related crimes start in September 2007, although he made a habit of waiting in people’s rooms in college to “play pranks”. Between September 2007 and November 2009, Williams broke into 82 homes, 61 of which went unreported or undetected. During these break in’s Williams would steal female underwear, sometimes of victims as young as 9 years old, take photos, and lay in their beds and masturbate. These crimes were all documented through photographs and videos he took, along with stolen items he kept and cataloged. His photos generally followed the same pattern with each victim.RussellFirst, he would take pictures of the victim’s bedroom in general and anything that helped identify the victim such as mail. Then he would take photos of undergarments in the victim’s drawer before laying them out on the bed or floor and taking more photos. The next photos would be of him wearing the underwear, and then him ejaculating, generally back at his house. He would meticulously categorize the photos, undergarments, and police and news reports. Of the people who he could not identify in their bedrooms, he would name the files in which their respective photographs were kept, “mysterious little girls”. He would also leave notes with some of his victims, one of which was “merci”, which means “thank you” in French, on a 12-year-old’s computer.

 

As time went on, William’s crimes escalated. One victim’s house he broke into a total of nine times. On the 6th time, he watched a woman get into the shower from outside of her window, broke in, got naked, stole her panties naked, then left the house before she got out of the shower to discover him. In another case of his fetish and crimes escalating, Williams got completely naked in masturbated in bushes outside of a teenager’s window. Russell3On New Years in 2008, Williams broke into a 15-year-old girl’s bedroom, and after taking undergarments and photographs, touched his genitals with her make up brush and left it behind in her bedroom to later be used. Williams obtained so much panties, bras and lingerie that he still had several boxes and bags of it despite burning much of it to make room. Between two victims alone, he stole around 60 items of intimate clothing.

Of the four sexual assaults, the first victim’s name has not been released. On September 16th, 2009, Williams cut the screen to the side window of the victim’s house and crawled in while she was asleep. He snuck up next to the bed and after watching her for a short while, hit her with his fist, waking her. They struggled, and she expressed concern for her young baby in the next room and her own life. He told her that he was not going to hurt her, took photos of her in various undergarments she had, stole some undergarments, and left.

The next victim was Laurie Massicotte. Williams removed a screen from the back window of her house, slid the window open, and climbed in.Laurie Massicotte was asleep on the couch in front of the T.V. in her living room. Williams hit her in the head with a flashlight in hopes of rendering her unconscious. This attempt was unsuccessful. Williams struggled with Masscotti, tied her hands behind her back and told her that there were other men robbing her house. He claimed to her that he was in charge of controlling her and that he would not hurt her if she complied with him. Because her hands were tied behind her back he removed her shirt by cutting it off of her. He took various photos of her in her underwear and sexually assaulted her over a period of two to two and a half hours before telling her to wait for a period of time before calling the police. He then went home a couple houses away and went to sleep.

 

The first murder victim was Marie-France Comeau, a fellow military woman who worked at William’s Air Force Base, CFB Trenton. Williams broke into her residence a few nights prior to her murder, stealing panties after wearing them himself inside of her house. On November 24, 2009, after listening to her having a conversation on the phone in her bedroom from outside, Williams went through her basement window and hid behind the furnace waiting for her to fall asleep. Comeau’s cat notices Williams and is fixated on him. Comeau comes into the basement trying to call her cat upstairs when she discovers Williams. Marie-FranceWilliams and Comeau get into a physical struggle where he hits her about her head with his flashlight in an attempt to knock her out, ties her hands behind her back, and duct tapes her mouth the prevent her from screaming. At some point during the struggle Williams ties Comeau to a pole in her basement and goes outside to put the screen back on the window to prevent anyone noticing something is amiss. Williams leads her up the stairs to the bedroom, but Comeau faints on the stairs and he carries her the rest of the way. Over a series of hours Williams rapes Comeau. While he left the room to check outside the windows for people coming, Comeau runs to the bathroom where she tries to get help through the window. He subdues her and brings her back to the bedroom. He attempts to strangle her, but she put up too much of a fight for him to successfully do so. Instead, he places tape over her nose (with her mouth already being taped) and holds her down on the floor face down until she suffocates. After her death, Williams then removes the tape and places her back in bed and pulls the covers up before leaving.

On January 28, 2010, Williams notices Jessica Lloyd on her treadmill as he drives past her house. Williams broke into her home through the kitchen window before she came home, then left. When she returned and she went to sleep he came in through the unlocked back patio door. He snuck up to the side of the bed intending to try to knock her out with his flashlight, but she woke up before he could. She was compliant to his demands so he did not hit her, instead placed a zip tie around her neck and told her if he did not like what she did, he would pull the zip tie. Over a span of three to four hours he raped and took pictures of Jessica Lloyd before loading her up into his vehicle and driving her back to his cottage closer to work (his wife lived at their newly built house). Image result for jessica lloyd russell williamsUpon arrival, they laid in his bed so he could nap, wrapping the rope that bound her hands around his body so he would feel if she tried to leave. She began to have a stress induced seizure sometime after more sexual assault, and he claims to have given her water, talked her through it, and had another nap on the floor with her after the seizure because she was exhausted. After taking series of photos of both her in different undergarments and him and her together, he told her he would bring her back home. They ate some fruit and then as they went to leave the house, he struck her on the back of the head with his flashlight. The blow rendered her unconscious with him believing that her skull caved. While she was unconscious, he strangled her. He then removed the zip tie, bound her body into a fetal position with duct tape, and placed her into the garage so he could go to work. After spending a time with his wife for a few days, he went back to his cottage and disposed of her body along a road behind a rock.  A roadblock on Highway 37 on February 4th discovered his Pathfinder’s tires produced the same tracks as those found outside of Jessica Lloyd’s house and he was brought in for questioning a few days later. There they found his shoe prints matched those found in the snow outside of her house and he confessed to both murders, the sexual assaults, and 82 break ins.

Conviction and Sentencing

On October 7, 2010, Williams plead guilty to all charges and on October 22, Ontario Superior Court Justice Robert Scott sentenced him to two life terms to be served concurrently, without the possibility of parole for 25 years. Williams’s commission and metals were revoked, and he was expelled from the Canadian Forces. In turn, his uniform was burned, medals destroyed, vehicle scrapped, and commission scroll shredded. Despite this, Williams is still entitled to his military pension, amounting to $60,000 annually. Williams refused to pay victim surcharge fines, which are only $8,000, leading to a lawsuit against him by one of his victims. This case was later settled. 

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Police Interrogations Uncategorized

Russell Williams Police Interrogation Transcript

On February 7th, 2010, former Colonel in the Canadian Forces, Russell Williams, was interviewed by the Ottawa Police’s Detective Smyth. In this interview, Williams admits to the murder of two women and the sexual assaults of two others. He was formally charged with two counts of first degree murder, sexual assault, two counts of forcible confinement, and 84 counts of breaking and entering. A case summary can be found here.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsLbDzkIy3A&w=560&h=315]

**The following interrogation transcript includes details from the sexual assaults that had been edited out of the official Ontario Provincial Police transcript.**

Russell Williams Police Interrogation Transcript

Detective: Just have a seat here, Russ.

Russell Williams: The guy I was speaking with on whatever night that was, was Russ as well.

Detective: Oh, yeah?

Russell Williams: And, and he took, uh, took every number I had.

Detective: Yeah, oh they were uh, doing some pretty thorough interviews that night.

Russell Williams: Yeah, absolutely. I was…

Detective: Alright.

Russell Williams: Glad to see it.

Detective: Uh, I’m just going to move your gloves, uh, that’s a little microphone.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Just make sure it’s nice and clear, um, as you can see here everything in this room is, uh, videotaped and audio taped.

Russell Williams: Check.

Detective: Uh, ever been interviewed by the police in a, in a room like this before or?

Russell Williams: I have never been interviewed like this…

Detective: Oh, no? okay.

Russell Williams: This is the closest to interview for NIS for top secret clearance.

Detective: Oh, yeah? Alright, well, again Russell, I appreciate you coming in, uh, an investigation like this, I mean, I’m sure you can appreciate its been big news, uh…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Especially down, uh, Belleville way uh, and you know obviously our approach in cases like this is that uh, uh, we don’t give up on somebody being alive until…

Russell Williams: Mm-Hm.

Detective: We get evidence that they’re not so um, because of that we’re treating, uh, Jessica’s case as an emergent situation obviously.

Russell Williams: Absolutely, yeah.

Detective: Um, so we’re, we’re fast forwarding things that we might normally take our time with…

Russell Williams: Mm-Hmm.

Detective: Uh, and that’s why, uh, we’re here on a Sunday afternoon, uh…

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: So, uh, again I appreciate it.

Russell Williams: No problem.

Detective: Um, we’re going to do a pretty thorough interview today.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, um, the reason for that is because, uh, the last thing we want is to be calling people back again and again and again, okay?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, so what we’re going to do is we’re going to go over a number of things and uh…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: I’m going to explain what all those are to you.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, um, I’m a big coffee guy. I don’t know if you’re a coffee guy or not.

Russell Williams: I am a coffee guy, actually, yeah.

Detective: I don’t want to drink in front of you so, um…

Russell Williams: No, no, I appreciate that.

Detective: Alright, go ahead.

Russell Williams: I could, uh, definitely. Are they black?

Detective: Yeah, they’re just black with, uh, with sugar, uh…

Russell Williams: Uh, you could definitely uh, take [inaudible]. Well, I just started my gum so I’ll probably have it in a little bit.

Detective: Sorry, you what? Sorry.

Russell Williams: Gum, just..

Detective: Oh [laughs]

Russell Williams: I just put a piece of gum in.

Detective: There’s napkins here if you want to toss it or whatever.

Russell Williams: I appreciate that.

Detective: Alright, and again, um, like I said this interview’s going to be very thorough.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, but again, uh, I have a simple rule when I talk to people. It’s, uh, I’m sure you’re the same way. I treat people, everybody, with respect and…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: I’ll ask that you do the same for me. Um, so what we’re going to do is we’re going to start off by, uh, going through, um, what your rights are, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Just like everybody else.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, um, have you been read your rights before?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: No? I’m sure you’ve seen it on TV a whole bunch of times.

Russell Williams: Oh, yeah.

Detective: But it’s usually the American version so…

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: I’ll go over it with you briefly, okay?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, basically in Canada, uh, as you know, I’m sure is, uh, we all have, uh, our rights guaranteed under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Russell Williams: Right.

Detective: Okay, now, uh, Russell, just to avoid any confusion ‘cause some people do get confused when they’re talked to by the police is that, uh…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, you’re obviously not under arrest for today, okay?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Anytime you feel, uh, you want to leave here, you feel free to do so. The door’s not locked. Theresa will walk you down to the lobby anytime you want.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, um, if there’s anything that comes up in our interview today, Russell, that uh, that you feel you want to talk, uh, to a lawyer about…

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, you just, uh, you just let me know.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Alright and the reason for that is when I explain to you exactly what’s going on here, okay, um, uh, Jessica, uh, Lloyd is um, is one of uh, four cases that we’re currently investigating.

Russell Williams: Right.

Detective: Um, and essentially what’s happened over the past, uh, uh, about four or five months…

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Um, there have been four occurrences, uh, like I said, that we’re looking into.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, two of those occurrences occurred in September of 2009.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, and very briefly they were up in the, uh, the Tweed area.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, they involved, uh, somebody entering uh, two different woman’s houses.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, in the evening hours and uh, committing, uh, sexual acts.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, uh, in, uh, November 2009…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, a young lady by the name of, uh, Marie-France, uh, Comeau, uh…

Russell Williams: One of my people, yeah.

Detective: Yeah, was found, uh, murdered in her home in Brighton.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: And, uh, we believe that there was a sexual component to that crime as well.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: And um, then most recently we have Jessica Lloyd’s disappearance.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, so essentially when you look at those kind of crimes we’re looking at number of different, uh, potential criminal charges, alright?

Russell Williams: I hope so.

Detective: Um, we’re looking at issues, uh, all the way from the most serious one which is first degree murder.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, kidnapping, uh, sexual assault…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, break and enter with intent to commit sexual assault…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, forcible confinement, okay? And, uh, so what I want to make sure you understand and this is what we do literally we talking to, is that clearly when we find out who’s responsible for one or all of those crimes…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, they could be charged with one or all of those offences, okay? Whether it’s you or whether it’s anybody else, alright?

Russell Williams: I’d hope so.

Detective: And that’s why it’s important that we us, make sure the people understand what they have to and what they don’t have to do when they’re talking to us.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, so as I said before, any point today, uh, you feel the need you want to speak to a lawyer, uh, you let me know.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: And uh, we can take you to a room where you can do that in private. Okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, do you have your own lawyer?

Russell Williams: I had a reality lawyer but…

Detective: Okay. [laughs]

Russell Williams: No, I don’t have a lawyer.

Detective: Alright, um, if at any point you want to make that call and you don’t know who to call…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, we have a phone list of lawyers that, uh, are available to give you advice free of charge right over the phone.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, so again if at any point today you want to, uh, take advantage of that you just let me know.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Um, is there any reason you want to call a lawyer now?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay. Um, couple other, uh, fairly simple and straight forward, uh, things that uh, you probably understand but, uh, again we go over them to make sure everybody’s clear…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Is that, uh, you don’t have to speak to me today, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: And the reason for that is because the law considers me to be what we refer to as a person of authority.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, probably similar to what you may be considered to be at the base.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, and because of that I can be compelled to appear before any Judge in the country basically to account for what takes place here today, between you and I, okay?

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Okay and that’s the reason why everything’s recorded…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …because there can’t be a more accurate record than that, right? So…

Russell Williams: No, understood.

Detective: Um, another thing I want to make sure you understand is that, uh, you know you mentioned a second ago about uh, Miss Comeau, um, being one of your, uh, work associates. Uh, so I don’t know what happened since November, um, on the military side of things, uh, but what we want to make people clear on is that, uh, if you have been spoken to by any person in authority…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …or any police officer about any of those case, um, I don’t want what they may have said to you to, uh, um, make you feel influenced or compelled to say anything to me today, okay? Whatever you might have felt influenced or compelled to say to them earlier…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective:… you don’t have to repeat to me. You don’t have to say anything further, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: But obviously what you do say you know for the third time is…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … being recorded, right? So, uh…

Russell Williams: Understood. These first two attacks that happened, uh, not that far from my place in Tweed. Well, the second one did.

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: We didn’t even know the first one had happened but, uh, I understand that was the reasonably close as well but the second one was, uh, was very close.

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: So certainly at the time the OPP did a, uh, went door to door…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: …and, and, uh, within a couple of days, probably the same night, so I spoke with a couple back then.

Detective: Okay, um, yeah, and I’m, I’m aware of that…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: From, uh, looking at the different cases and essentially uh, Russell, uh, in a nutshell, that’s what we wanted to, uh, to talk to you about.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, um, those four cases are, uh, a concern to us.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And uh, you know you’ve kind of, uh, all most hit the nail on the head about, uh, some of our issues that kind of, uh, make us want to talk to, to, Russell Williams, okay?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, cause essentially uh, there’s a, a, a, connection, um, between you and uh, and all four of those cases. Would you agree, geographically?

Russell Williams: And that I, I guess I drive past, uh, yes, uh…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams:… I would say there’s, uh, a connection, yeah.

Detective: Yeah, and that’s what, that’s why, uh, I’ll be quite frank with you, that’s why, uh, things kind of, um, uh, evolved when uh, the officers talked to you Thursday night.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Uh, we kind of went from there because uh, when I think you discussed with the fact that you were a, uh, a, a, Colonel…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …uh, at the base.

Russell Williams: I was in uniform at the time, so…

Detective: Yeah, so pretty obvious, right?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, so essentially, uh, then the connection with Miss Comeau, um…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …was made. Um, and I believe you’re uh, a door or two down from one of the two, uh, incidents, uh….

Russell Williams: Think, uh…

Detective: …in Tweed.

Russell Williams: … three doors down, yeah.

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: Very close, absolutely.

Detective: Yeah, exactly. So, uh, those are some of the issues I want to discuss with you.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, um, so just getting back to uh, those four incidents that we’re talking about, um, maybe you can just give me a little bit of history as to, uh, your arrival and the uh, and the base in Trenton, when did you start working there?

[edited]

Russell Williams: Friday, on the day I was, um, hm. Friday on the day I was at home most the time, most the day. I had the start of a stomach flu.

Detective: Okay, in Ottawa or Tweed?

Russell Williams: In Tweed.

Detective: In Tweed, okay.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: So, we backtrack then. So, all day Friday you’re at home?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: And then what time do you leave to go to the base to sleep there on the Friday night?

Russell Williams: Um, mm, not sure. Probably just, you know, went in for, just before bed. Uh, so I probably left Tweed at between 8 or 9 or so.

Detective: Okay, uh, and you get to the base and spend the evening there and get up for the five thirty…

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: That’s right.

Detective: So, we back track from there, um, you, when did you arrive at your home, uh, at the cottage? I want, I don’t want you confused between home in Ottawa and the home in Tweed, so.

Russell Williams: Yeah, yeah, understood.

Detective: So, uh…

Russell Williams: No, I have been in Tweed all week.

Detective: Yup.

Russell Williams: Uh, the week prior now, um, yeah. I think that’s the case. I was in Tweed all week. Flew Saturday, headed to Ottawa Saturday night….

Detective: Okay, so, um, if you didn’t have the stomach flu on the Friday, what was your schedule like?

Russell Williams: …I think it was 7 or 8, really.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Um, what would have been my schedule? Just a standard schedule in the office.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, um, I’ll just brief in the morning. Couple of, uh, couple of meetings. Can’t remember what the specifics on that were going to be.

Detective: Okay, so, um, Thursday night you slept at Tweed or you…

Russell Williams: Yup.

Detective: Alright, and what did you do Thursday during the day?

Russell Williams: Thursday during the day I was at the base again. Um, I think it was a very standard day. I can’t recall exactly but uh, yeah, nothing. Was not flying so I was at the base so I would have gone in early in the morning, back in the evening again.

Detective: Okay, do you remember what time you left the base that night?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Mm… I don’t remember anything peculiar so I would say, uh, I don’t know. Probably 7 to 9 somewhere in that range.

Detective: Okay, that’s when you left?

Russell Williams: Left the base, yeah.

Detective:  And what, what’s…

Russell Williams: It’s a 45 minute transit so…

Detective: 45 minutes home.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

[edited]

Detective: Now, I’m not going to walk you through November but I’m going to take you to a date that’s probably pretty fresh in your mind, uh, uh, the day that, uh, that Marie-France, uh, Comeau…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, do you remember how you found out, uh…

Russell Williams: I do, yeah. I was sent an email, um [sighs]. Well, as soon as the, uh, off staff in the base learned they told me.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So I got an email. I can’t remember if it was late at night or in the morning but certainly I saw it. Uh, I want to say first thing in the morning because I had just come back from Ottawa. I was in Ottawa for uh, um, a set of meetings on one of the days, I can’t remember what, what day of the week we’re talking about but uh, yeah, no, I mean, obviously one of your people gets killed it, uh, gets your attention, so…

Detective: Absolutely.

Russell Williams: Everyone [inaudible].

Detective: And how did you know Marie-France Comeau?

Russell Williams: I only met her once. Um, she was on a crew, uh, I was on, uh, just after I got to the base.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, uh, I can’t even remember. I think it was a one day trip. Uh, I did a number of trips, uh, in Canada transporting um, our, um, you know troops for the first leg out of Edmonton. Uh, you know we tend to hopscotch them across, uh, until they get in the theater. So anyway, I, I can’t remember which trip it was but uh, I did a number of them out to Edmonton just to, to pick up the troops, bring them to Trenton, and then uh, put a fresh crew on and uh, ‘cause we fly out and back in the same day so pushing the edge of that uh, fresh crew on and continue on after a couple hour delay.

Detective: Okay. Do you know, uh, roughly when that happened?

Russell Williams: That we were on the same crew?

Detective: Eh, the time you met her, the one time there, yeah.

Russell Williams: It was soon after I got to the base so uh, I, I don’t remember exactly but I would say in the first couple of months so August, September.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, now you got that email…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …notifying you that something had happened.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Uh, do you have, uh, any kind of, uh, a clear recollection as to how your schedule is going that week?

Russell Williams: Well, I can’t remember what again, what day that, uh, the message came in. Just a second. Um, no, I can’t remember what day, the day of the week, but I, um… Let me think. There was all a bunch of activity, uh, spun up as a result, obviously. [sighs] No, I can’t remember the day of the week. Um, I’m just trying to think through the news reports I read. No. I’m sorry. I can’t remember what day that was but uh…Well, what I, what we learned after the fact was that the, um, MP’s had learnt uh, of her death. I think quite a bit after her body had been discovered.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, I think what happened, I’m sorry, just a second. Okay. So, I think, if I remember correctly, the MP’s learned late that evening, I can’t remember when. Obviously, her, her body was discovered. It’s probably in news reports but uh, so they learnt and then they passed it to OPS] so they immediately passed it to me.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: The MP’s work for the [inaudible] operations officers so they go, you know, through their chain of command and then as soon as the, uh, the duty watch officer had that information she advised me…

Detective: Okay, um, so again that…

Russell Williams: … along with some others.

Detective: Right, right. I’m sure it spread like wild fire.

Russell Williams: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Detective: Um, so, that particular week, uh, do you have any recollection, well, for instance, when you got the email, uh…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Do you remember where you were?

Russell Williams: I was at home in Tweed.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams:  Yeah.

Detective: Um, do you remember if that was a week you were, um, reasonably stable in Trenton or had you flown a bit?

Russell Williams: No, I had been in Ottawa. I had been in Ottawa earlier in the week, uh, for some meetings over in uh, in Gatineau for one of the um, [inaudible] C17 acquisitions. I was a project director when I was here in Ottawa for that so just some follow up stuff on that.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So I had been here, um, at some point in that week. Again, I can’t remember how the days all fell together but um, I seem to remember that I got this word shortly after having come back from Ottawa. I, seems to me it was the same week.

[edited]

Detective: So, if we were to, uh, to you know, do a similar, uh, investigation into your background, is there, is there anything you can think of that anybody may have misinterpreted or anything, uh, in your history, that somebody might say “Russell Williams, uh”….

Russell Williams: Absolutely not.

Detective: …did this?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Be very boring.

Detective: What’s that?

Russell Williams: It’ll be very boring.

Detective: [laughs] alright, ‘Cause and essentially that’s what I’m looking at is that, uh…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, uh, you seem like a very intelligent person, and I think you can see how, um, a surprise like that would, uh, certainly…

Russell Williams: Absolutely.

Detective: … send some alarm bells on an…

Russell Williams:  There’s nothing.

Detective: …investigation. Okay?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, so the next thing we need to cover off is, uh, well, I’ll just ask you this straight out. Uh, given the types of crimes we’re investigating, uh, do you get much chance to, uh, to watch television shows, CSI, things like that?

Russell Williams: I do watch, uh, I prefer Law and Order but I do watch CSI occasionally, yes.

Detective: Okay, so you have an idea of, obviously the forensic capabilities, things like that, are out there.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: What would you be willing to give me today to help me, uh, move past you in this investigation.

Russell Williams: What, uh, what do you need?

Detective: Well, um, well do you want to supply things like fingerprints, blood samples?

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Things like that.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay. Um, footwear impressions.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, alright. Um, I think that’s what we’re going, we’re going to ask you to do.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Alright, now we have a process we have to go through to do that.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, and for the blood sample, I don’t take the blood sample. We have specially trained officers that are trained to do that.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Uh, I’m going to step out and make sure they’re still available.

[edited]

Russell Williams: Can I assume you’re going to be discreet?

Detective: As possible, yeah.

Russell Williams: ‘Cause uh, you know, this would have a very significant impact on the Base if they thought you thought I did this.

Detective: Well, uh [inaudible] Russell, that’s one of the reasons we’re here on a Sunday afternoon.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, uh, the uh, military’s certainly been of great assistance uh, to us.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Especially in relation to Miss Comeau’s investigation.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: So that’s certainly one of the things that went into our decision to, to give you a call at home today and see if we could deal with this today.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: So, okay, um…

Russell Williams: ‘Cause it’s tough to undo the rumor mill once it gets started… but I appreciate that.

Detective: Okay.

[edited]

Detective:  Now that you’ve had some time to, uh, and I know we’ve been throwing a lot of things at you here but now you’ve had some time to, to think about things, um, is there anything, uh, that you’re concerned about, uh, that Buccal swab matching in any of those four residences.

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Um, is there, I guess, let me explain what I’m getting at here Russell. Okay, um, this is a significant investigation as you can, as you can…

Russell Williams: Yeah, absolutely.

Detective: Well, imagine…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, but, uh, that DNA is going to be uh, significant in our investigation both…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: … you know, quite possibly to help you, quite possibly to help us.

Russell Williams: Yeah, understood.

Detective: I don’t know yet, I don’t know what the result is yet.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, and I’ll go back to the example I gave you ‘cause they’re very similar, uh, issue, I think. Um, and you talked about the idea of discretion here…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, uh, you talked about the idea that, uh, um, you know, you, well I think hopefully you appreciate the fact of how we approached you here.

Russell Williams: Yeah, absolutely.

Detective: Um, and essentially, uh, we have no issues with that, okay? Um, we, we talked recently about, you know, the whole idea of any unusual sex acts of your history.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, but another thing can often happen in cases like this is that people um, become concerned about uh, um, things like extramarital affairs.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, indiscretions along those lines.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, is there any contact that you may have had with any of those four women, um, that you may not want your wife to be aware of? Anything like that, that we should know about to try and uh, explain why if, if your DNA is found?

Russell Williams: [inhales deeply]

Detective: To help us understand why it may be there.

Russell Williams: Absolutely not. [sighs}.

Detective: Can you think of any reason, um, why we would find you DNA in any of those residences?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Let’s, let’s focus on well, for instance [edited] house, I believe.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Let me just check the name there. Make sure I’ve got the right address. Talking about the house that was just a couple doors down from you there on the, in Tweed.

Russell Williams: Couple doors down was…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: Laurie, I don’t know her last name. I don’t know.

[edited]

Detective: Massicotte.

Russell Williams: I don’t even know what her last name is but uh, there’s uh, uh, the, the, woman down the road three doors down was…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: … her name was Laurie. I don’t know her last name.

Detective: Alright, I’ll just make sure we’re on the same page here. Mm, yeah. My understanding is she lived at 76 Cozy Cove. Yeah, so she would be the one, the second one, uh, the second incident on you, on your road there.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Couple doors down. Ever been in her house?

Russell Williams: No. We met her once, I think the first summer, um, we were there, so in ’04.

Detective: Okay and that’s what I’m getting at. I, I’d, I, again this is a credibility issue.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Russ, because I, I don’t want to come and see you two weeks from now and say, you know, Russ, uh…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … our CSI people were in that house uh, are you familiar with how C, uh, DNA works?

Russell Williams: I think broadly, yes, I…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: … would guess so.

Detective: Um, one of the challenges we have in 2010, DNA has become so, um, precise that uh, I guess the best way to explain it is, I can think of 15 years ago when I started in, uh, violent crime investigations…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … um, for us to get DNA match the sample we had to find was, um, you know, probably would’ve filled half of on of these cups.

Russell Williams: Does it, yeah.

Detective: You know, ‘cause they destroy so much of the uh, the sample and, and, the testing.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, essentially DNA has become more and more precise to the point where when you and I walked in this room earlier today…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Uh, we could’ve sat down, talked for 30 seconds…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …walked out. CSI officer could’ve come in three, four days from now…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective:… did some swabs here and he would’ve found your DNA and my DNA…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …and probably a lot of other people’s DNA.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Um, little bit gross to think about but essentially, uh, you know as we talk, um, we, you know, a little bit of aspirate comes out of our mouths….

Russell Williams: Yeah, no. I understand.

Detective: … that, uh, contains our bloods or uh, our skin cells contain our DNA…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …and that’s what I’m getting at. If you were ever in Laurie’s residence…

Russell Williams: Um…

Detective: Quite possibly, quite innocently, your DNA could be, uh, in that residence. Has there ever been a time you’ve been in there?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, um, what about the other lady down the road.

Russell Williams: I hadn’t even heard that name so, no, I don’t, I don’t, actually know who that was.

Detective: Okay. Have you ever visited uh, um, Marie-France Comeau at her residence?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, alright. Um, so you’re quite positive there’d be no reason why your DNA would be in any…

Russell Williams: Absolutely.

Detective: …of those…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …three locations. Okay, um, did you know Jessica Lloyd, even in passing for any reason?

Russell Williams: No, I didn’t hear her name until it was on the news.

Detective: Okay and the reason I’m asking you that, uh, is because, um, I know you were asked that question Thursday night and sometimes we find and again, this is one of those situations that can sometimes cause us to get into lengthy investigation is somebody that…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …maybe doesn’t deserve it…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: ..uh, but what, what can happen sometimes is they, you know, somebody gets stopped by the police like you did and they, uh, get asked that question and people, when they’re stopped by the police, they can be nervous, okay?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, so they blurt out an answer and they start driving away and they’re all “why’d I do that” because the problem is, is that once they, uh, get asked again, then they feel compelled to maintain that answer for fear that if they change their answers…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …somebody could find that. Do you understand what I’m saying?

Russell Williams: I do.

Detective: Okay, so I want to make sure that’s not happening here. I don’t care what you said to the officers on Thursday.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Last week, um, if there’s any, uh, communication or contact between you and Jessica Lloyd, you seen her picture, right?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Around town.

Russell Williams: Yeah, I saw it.

Detective: Okay, ever seen her before?

Russell Williams: I don’t, no, I would say I have not.

Detective: Okay, alright. Alright, and you mentioned something about uh, doing some renovations at your, uh, at your property in Tweed there. Um, I think you said something earlier about tearing up carpet. Correct me if I’m wrong but…

Russell Williams: Oh yeah.

Detective: Okay, when did all that happen?

Russell Williams: In 2004, or 2005.

Detective: Okay, any recent, uh, renovations?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, alright.

Detective: Just want to make sure I’m covering all the bases here. Um, okay, what kind of tires do you have on your Pathfinder?

Russell Williams: I think, um, I think they’re Toyo.

Detective: Okay, but do you have a brand name or sorry, uh, the, uh…

Russell Williams: I that, is that.

Detective: Make…

Russell Williams: Um, I don’t, sorry. The, the make is Toyo.

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: I don’t know the model.

Detective: Okay, just, uh, I’ll uh, read this off to you. See if it rings a bell… You ever heard of uh, does Toyo Open Country HTS…

Russell Williams: That’s sounds right.

Detective: Does that make sense?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, when did you have those tires put on your Pathfinder?

Russell Williams: Well, it’s the second version we’ve had of them so, uh, I think it might’ve been this past fall. They replaced other ones we had on the same…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Well, Toyo. I can’t say that they were the same exactly, the same model, but uh, our dealership here in Ottawa says they’re very popular for the Pathfinder so…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: … and they were good. They lasted a long time.

Detective: Alright, um, I’ve had uh, you were talking about the, the whole idea of the MP’s, uh, helping us with our investigation…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: … stuff like this. Uh, you have the same system as we do at our headquarters with the swipe cards…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: One of the things, uh, one of our investigators did is they made a call while I was talking to you there, um, because we’re trying to work through that week of the, uh, 23rd of November.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, 23rd being the Monday, uh, 24th being the Tuesday.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, what, what they’ve, what they’ve told us is that um, and I want to make sure I get this right, is that, uh, on the 23rd, uh, your swipe card was being used at the base, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: On Tuesday the 24th there was no use of your swipe card.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, and then on the uh, the following days, uh, the Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, um, there was what appeared to be average activity of…

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: …your swipe card on the base. Does that make sense to you?

Russell Williams: It does but that says that I was in Ottawa on the Tuesday.

Detective: Okay. Do you remember where, uh, in Ottawa you were?

Russell Williams: Yeah, I was in uh, Gatineau with uh, as I said, meeting about the uh, C17.

Detective: Okay, um, now again I want to be fair to you here. We’re going back 2 months.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, are you sure that would’ve been the, uh, the day you were in Ottawa.

Russell Williams: Well, only because I wasn’t at the Base.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, I, I can’t remember honestly that that’s the day that I had the meeting in Ottawa but uh, if I wasn’t at the Base it was because I was there.

Detective: Okay, now if that is the day you had a meeting in Ottawa, um, do you remember being at the Base on the Monday, uh, the 23rd and swiping your card in and out? Do you remember what you would’ve done that evening to, to, to get to Ottawa for that meeting? Like, would it be, uh…

Russell Williams: I drove to Ottawa in the morning of the day of my meeting. So, if it was the Tuesday then I would’ve left uh, Tweed. It was a very foggy morning.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Uh, that morning and I drove in that morning…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, I would not have been at the Base, uh, the day I was in Ottawa ‘cause the meeting started at eight thirty or something.

Detective: Okay, so you leave the Base, you would’ve went home to, to your residence in Tweed.

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: And then you left Tweed in the morning and drove up to your meeting in Ottawa.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, um, you leave the, the meeting in Ottawa, is it a daytime meeting, an evening meeting  or do you remember?

Russell Williams: Uh, yeah it was, uh, uh, a daytime meeting. Finished, I don’t know, mid afternoon or so.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: We had lunch and then uh, finished. I think uh, my wife and I had dinner ‘cause she was here for work and then I headed back.

Detective: Okay, uh, well, that’s, these are the kinds of things I’m trying to draw out here. That’s helpful to us. Um, do you remember where you had dinner?

Russell Williams: [laugh] Uh, well, I don’t remember exactly the restaurant, but it was in Westboro ‘cause that’s where our house was being built at the time so we had dinner. You know, in a restaurant that we would expect to be able to frequent, uh, once the house was finished.

Detective: Okay, do you remember how you paid?

Russell Williams: Uh, one of us would’ve paid by Mastercard, mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, are you sure about that or…

Russell Williams: Pretty sure. That’s normally how we, uh…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …we pay for meals.

Detective: Alright.

Russell Williams: Can’t remember if it was me or my wife that paid but one of us.

Detective: Okay, and do you remember which restaurant it was again?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, alright, and you see where I’m getting at, right? I mean the, that can be very helpful for us…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … because we can track…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … uh that issue, right?

Russell Williams: Oh yeah.

Detective: And we can put somebody paying for a meal at, at a location.

Russell Williams: No, yeah. I was meeting with, uh, you know, 15 people or so that day so…

Detective: Okay, what time did the meeting end?

Russell Williams: [sighs] I would say between 3 and 4.

Detective: Okay, and um, are you sure that that’s the same day you went with your wife?

Russell Williams: Well, I think so. Yeah, ‘cause she was here and uh, I, I think that was the day we went to this restaurant in Westboro, yes.

Detective: Okay, um, you finished dinner and do you remember what you did that evening?

Russell Williams: I would’ve driven back to Tweed.

Detective: Okay, and you would’ve, now again, uh, I know we’re talking 2 months ago here but do you…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …remember specifically having dinner and then driving back to Tweed or uh, do you remember or are you just guessing here?

Russell Williams: No, I’m not really guessing. I mean, I, I believe that this night at this restaurant it was following the meetings in Ottawa…

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: …and I, you know, kissed my wife goodbye and headed back to Tweed…

Detective:  Okay.

Russell Williams: …to go to work the next day.

Detective: Okay, um, alright. The, uh, the tires that you have on your truck right, the reason I want to ask you about that is there is, there, anytime I mean, that you recall, uh, where you were stopped, um, by the officers there…

Russell Williams: Yes.

Detective: …yeah, did they explain to you what the significance…

Russell Williams: Said that was her house.

Detective: That was her house, right.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: So you remember that location?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Do you remember what the crossroad was or…

Russell Williams: I don’t think there was a crossroad. It sort of just, uh, on the south end of 37.

Detective: Okay, um, when you get stopped at that location, has there been a time in the recent, uh, 1 or 2 weeks that uh, your vehicle has uh, left that road for any reason what so ever? Have you driven into a field with your vehicle at all, um, for any reason that you can think of?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, um, so I want you to rack your brain here. This is important.

Russell Williams: Yeah, yeah.

Detective: So is there anything you can remember doing that uh, you know, would cause you to, to, drive off the road…

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: … at that section of roadway?

Russell Williams: No, that’s my early, uh, that’s the early part of the highway and I’m just heading North. It’s about 30 minutes from there to uh, no, probably 20 from there to my house.

Detective: Okay, um, would it surprise you to know that, uh, when the CSI officers were, uh, looking around her property, uh, that they identified um, a set of tire tracks, uh, to the north of her property, uh, looks as if a vehicle left the road…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And uh, drove along the north tree line of, of, uh, Jessica Lloyd’s property, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Um, they took, uh, they, they, examined those tire tracks…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And uh, they have contacts in the tire business, obviously.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Tire tracks…

Russell Williams: Mm=hm.

Detective: …are a major source of uh, evidence for us.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Um, shortly after um, this investigation started they identified those tires as the same, uh, tires on your Pathfinder.

Russell Williams: Really?

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Okay, one of the other, uh, one of the other things that they do to try and identify the type vehicle that may have those tires…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Well, they do two things. They talk to witnesses…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, um there was uh, a female police officer that actually drove by that location that evening.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: … and recalls seeing an SUV type vehicle in the field up to the north of Jessica Lloyd’s house, uh, consistent with uh, a Pathfinder.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: It may be consistent with other things but consistent…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …with a Pathfinder. Um, and they, uh, what they also do to try to identify they type of the vehicle is they look at, uh, what they call the wheelbase width.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, ‘cause different vehicles different makes, models, have wheelbase width so…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …they can take those 2 sets of tire tracks, measure the distance between them…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, and determine what the, uh, what the width is.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: And then they can enter that into a vehicle database and it will spit out the types of vehicles.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, um, your Pathfinder’s uh, wheelbase width is very very close to the width of the uh, the, of the tires, uh, that were left in that field.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, um, do you have any recollection at all of being off the road?

Russell Williams: No, I was not off the road, no.

Detective: Okay, alright Russell. [sighs] Um, is there anything you can think of… Let’s go talk about Marie-Fances Comeau for a minute, okay?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Is there any reason at all you can think of that during our investigation, obviously we’re searching, uh, computers, things like Blackberries, right?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Electronic devices, uh, looking through houses for things that are in handwriting, written notes, diaries, things like that.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective:  Um, and I’m not at liberty to tell you what the content was but is there any reason at all that you can think of why Marie-France Comeau would’ve specifically referenced you in some of her, uh, in some of her writings?

Russell Williams: Not at all.

Detective: No?

Russell Williams: No, absolutely not. [laughs]

Detective: Okay, is there anything that she ever said to you that lead you to believe that there may have been something, uh, more than a passing interest with her towards you?

Russell Williams: Not at all, no. We spent, you know, one flight together talking. I’d go back occasionally and talk. No, I, uh, if that’s the case, that’s uh, that’s very surprising.

Detective: Okay, alright. Um, do you have any questions for me right now?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, I’m just going to step out and see how things are going, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: I mean, it is a Sunday but there’s probably 60, 70 people working on this file so there’s…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …a lot of things happening.

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Uh, so let me go out and see what’s happening and then I’ll come back in and we’ll, we’ll hopefully, continue, okay?

[edited]

Detective: I told you when I came in here, uh, that I’ll treat you with respect and I’ve asked you to do the same for me. Um, we talked about the whole idea of how we’ve uh, uh, approached you here, okay. Uh, trying to be as discreet as possible.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, but the problem is Russell, is every time I walk out of this room there’s another issue that comes up, okay, and it’s not issues that point away from you. It’s issues that point at you, okay? And I want, I want you to see what I mean.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Alright, this is the footwear impression of the person who approached the rear of Jessica Lloyd’s house…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …on the evening of the 28th and 29th of January.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, alright. Now I want you to keep in mind that this is slightly smaller, okay, than scale, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Alright, that’s not to scale. That’s, that footwear is actually bigger.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: If you look here on the ruler you’ll see that. Uh, one inch is just slightly smaller than an actual inch.

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Alright, but this is the way it prints off on your computer.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: I’ll move this over so you can see what I mean, Alright? Essentially when you’re dealing with footwear impressions, um, we have a gentleman on the OPP who’s uh, basically world-renowned, uh, his name is John Norman…

Russell Williams: Mm.

Detective: …and essentially with footwear impressions, uh, you’re in a situation where you’re, you’re pretty much in the area of, uh, fingerprints.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, and essentially what we’re talking about here is when, especially when you start adding other pieces of, of, uh, information…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …that, uh, support, uh, an investigative position.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, this is a photocopy of the boot that uh, you took off your foot…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …just a little while ago.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, now I’m not an expert in footwear impressions. I rely on the experts. Footwear impressions are very much like, uh, like fingerprint comparisons, Okay? You take a look at this print and again. This one print…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …this person walked through. There’s several different prints to compare.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: So, we’re going to get features off of one print to compare features off another print to compare.

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: These are identical, okay? Your vehicle drove up the side of Jessica Lloyd’s house. Your boots walked to the back of Jessica Lloyd’s house on the evening of the 28th and 29th of January, okay? You want discretion, we need to have some honesty, okay? Because this is, this is getting out of control really fast, Russel, okay? Really, really fast.

Russell Williams: [sniffs] hmm [sighs]

Detective: This is getting beyond my control, alright? I came in here a few hours ago and I called you the way I called you today because I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …but you and I both know you were at Jessica Lloyd’s house and I need to know why.

Russell Williams: Well, I don’t know what to say, it’s, um…

Detective: Well, you need to explain it because this is the other problem we’re having Russell, okay? Again, these decisions are made by me…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Right now there’s warrant being executed at your residence in Ottawa, okay? So your wife now knows what’s going on. There’s a search warrant being executed at the, your residence in Tweed and your vehicles been seized, okay? You and I both know they’re going to find evidence that links you to these situations, okay? You and I both know that the unknown offender, male DNA on Marie-France Comeau’s body is going to be matched to you, quite possible before the evening’s over, okay? This is a major investigation. The Center of Forensic Science is on call 24 hours a day helping us with this.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Your opportunity to take some control here and to have some explanation that anybody’s going to believe is quickly expiring.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, we’re applying, the investigators now applying for a warrant to search your office. Uh, these aren’t decisions that we can say yes or no to. This is the practical steps…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …in an investigation like this.

Russell Williams: [sighs]

Detective: And Russell… Russell…

Russell Williams:  Mm-hm.

Detective: Listen to me for a second, okay? When that evidence comes in and that DNA match, when that phone rings, and somebody knocks on this door…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Your credibility is gone, okay, because this is how credibility works, alright, and I know you’re an intelligent person and you probably don’t need to hear this explanation but I also know your minds racing right now, okay, cause I sat across from a lot of people in your position over the years…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …okay, the bottom line is, is that as soon as we get that piece of evidence that solidifies it…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: …DNA. Okay, as soon as the expert in footwear impressions, the expert in tire impressions calls me “yes, yes I examined those and they’re…”

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: “…a match”

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: It’s all over because as soon as that happens, where’s your credibility? Where’s your believability? You’re just another, um, and again, don’t take this the wrong way, okay, but you can see if you step outside this room in your mind, and imagine how people are going to view you, okay? If the truth comes out after the clear evidence is presented to you when you finally go “okay, I’m screwed now”…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

[edited]

Detective: What are we going to do, Russell? You know there’s only one option. What are you, what are you, what other option is there?

Russell Williams: What’s the option?

Detective: Well, I don’t think you want the cold blooded psychopath option. I might be wrong eh, ‘cause don’t get me wrong, I’ve met guys who actually kind of enjoyed the notoriety, got off on it. Got off on having that label. Bernardo being one of them. I don’t see that in you. If I saw that in you, I wouldn’t even be back in here talking to you, quite frankly, but maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you got me fooled. I don’t know. This is over and it can have a, a bad ending where Jessica’s parents continue wondering where her daughters lying.

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: I don’t know. I mean, obviously there’s a huge search still under way and it will continue, it will continue until her body’s found. That might even happen tonight for all I know. Once that happens, then I don’t know what other cards you would have to play. What are you going to do?

[silence]

Detective: Russell, what are we going to do?

Russell Williams: Call me Russ, please.

Detective: Okay, what are we going to do, Russ?

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: Is Jessica somewhere we can find her easily? Like is it something where I can make a call and tell somebody to go to a location they’re going to find her or is this something where we have to go and, and, um, take a walk…

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: Which direction are we heading in here?

[Silence]

Detective: Russ, maybe, maybe this would help, can you tell me what the issue is you’re struggling with?

[Silence]

Detective: What’s the issue you’re struggling with?

Russell Williams: [sigh]

[Silence]

Russell Williams: [sniff] It’s hard to believe this is happening.

Detective: Why is that?

[Silence]

Detective: Why is it hard to believe?

Russell Williams: [sigh]

[Silence]

Russell Williams: Um, it’s just, it’s just hard to believe. [sigh]

Detective: Who’s decision was it, when we’re going to find out the answer to this anyway but who’s decision was it to issue the, uh, directive to the base personnel that nobody had to speak to the police and to seek legal counsel before they were questioned. Because my unders…

Russell Williams: I don’t think that was issued.

Detective: My understand that direction came from somebody that reports to you. What do you think they’re going to say?

Russell Williams: Well…

Detective: Russ…

Russell Williams: No, no.

Detective: What do you think they’re going to say, alright? Uh, and lets, lets step back for a second here, okay? I really don’t think it benefits you or makes you look any better to start debating the little issues.

Russell Williams: No, no but that is news to me.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: I have a legal officer that reports to me…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: …who may have given that direction…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …but that’s the first time I’ve heard it, if that’s true, that’s the first time I’ve heard that.

Detective: Alright, and that may be the case but how does it look? We’re not even dealing with something that’s really, uh, evidence cause it’s not needed, I mean…

Russell Williams: No, no but that…

Detective: We’ve got DNA and all this over stuff that’s not even needed.

Russell Williams: What was the direction?

Detective: I don’t recall but it was something along the lines of, uh, telling the people on the base that they didn’t, uh, they weren’t required legally to speak with the police and they should seek legal counsel before the decide to speak but…

Russell Williams: Well if that was, if that was actually said, it would not have been to the base at large. It, it may have been to the individual they, uh, the boyfriend who is the suspect.

Detective: Well, I understanding it went out to all personnel.

Russell Williams: No, absolutely not.

Detective: Maybe, maybe, no, only on your command, I don’t know.

Russell Williams: It didn’t.

Detective: Right, okay. That’s fine.

Russell Williams: I did never see it.

Detective: That’s fine. Now let’s get back to the issue.

[edited]

Detective: What’s that?

Russell Williams: When you talk about perception my only 2 immediate concerns from a perception perspective are what my wife must be going through right now…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: … and the impact this is going to have on the Canadian Forces.

[edited]

Detective: Where do we go? Russ, is there anything you want from me? Is there anything you want me to explain? Is there something missing you’re struggling with that I can shed some light on for you?

Russell Williams: [sigh] No, I’m struggling with how upset my wife is right now.

[edited]

Detective: Russ, what are you looking for?

Russell Williams: I’m concerned that they’re tearing apart my wife’s brand new house.

Detective: So am I but if nobody tells them what’s there and what’s not, they don’t have no choice.

[edited]

Detective: Computers have been brought to Microsoft in California. They’ll be, they’ll be picking apart, you can’t erase things from computers, it doesn’t happen, I’m sure you’ve seen that, I’m sure that’s pretty common knowledge these days. It just doesn’t happen. They sell programs that uh, to try and help people clean their computers and stuff and our guys are pulling that stuff out all the time. The FBI’s pulling that stuff out all the time. This investigation will end up costing no less than ten million dollars, easy and they will say no to nothing. Any requests this major case manager makes on this case, they’ve already been told it’s approved, don’t even bother asking. So, what I am doing, Russ, I put my best foot forward here for you, bud, I really have. I don’t, I don’t know what else to do to, to make, make you understand the impact of what’s happening here. Do we talk?

Russell Williams: I want to um, minimize the impact on my wife.

Detective: So, do I.

Russell Williams: So how do we do that?

Detective: Well, you start by telling the truth.

[Silence]

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: Alright, so where is she?

[Silence]

Russell Williams: Got a map?

Detective: Um, is she close to where she lives? I got maps of that general area. Which town is she near? Why don’t we start there?

Russell Williams: I’m not sure but if you give me a map of um, that covers Kaladar down to the highway and over to Tweed and south, I’ll show you.

Detective: Let me see what I got here. I might have something. Is she inside, outside?

Russell Williams: Outside.

[Silence]

Detective: That’s probably the biggest area that I have there, Russ.

Russell Williams: You need more. You need a real map.

Detective: So, where am I going on the, on here to get to her.

Russell Williams: [sighs] in this block here.

Detective: Okay, so you’re pointing to…

Russell Williams: You need a, a detailed map of that area and I’ll show you where she is…

Detective: Okay, is she close to a road?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Alright, um, is this something where, is she, is she buried or is she…

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: … Somewhere where if you walk there you would, you would fairly easily see her?

Russell Williams: It’s here.

Detective: Okay so she’s south of 7, uh, east of Tweed.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: West of 41.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And uh, what’s this road here?

Russell Williams: I’m not sure.

Detective: Neither am I, okay. I’ll be right back, okay? Do you want any water or anything?

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: Okay, I’ll be right back. How long has she been there for?

Russell Williams: A little over a week.

Detective: Was it fairly quick from the time she left?

Russell Williams: Friday night.

Detective: Friday night.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: So, where does she go between Thursday night and Friday night?

Russell Williams: In Tweed.

Detective: With you?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: How long was she alive for?

Russell Williams: Almost 24 hours. Not quite.

Detective: Okay. Russ, you’re doing the right thing here, okay?

Russell Williams: Well, again, my interest is in, uh, into my, my wife’s life a little easier.

Detective: Yeah, okay.

Russell Williams: And with her family as well.

Detective: Oh, we share that interest.

Russell Williams: But there’s no, uh, your time in Ottawa is wasted really. I’ll tell you where the memory stick cards are.

Detective: Where are they?

Russell Williams: They’re in the house there but…

Detective: In Ottawa.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Whereabouts?

Russell Williams: Um, some in the camera bag, which they would have found in my office.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: And in the, when you walk into the office, on the left side, there’s a um, uh, desk, uh, drawers…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: …set of drawers like a filing cabinet, wooden, Ikea, in one of the top two drawers and there’s a plastic divider…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: …and there’s uh, inside there, there are 2 memory cards.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Which are blank but I’m sure they can be re, uh…

Detective: And who’s images are on those cards?

Russell Williams: Uh, well, the, I have erased them but I expect, uh, you’ll be able to draw images of uh, Jessica and I.

Detective: What about Marie?

Russell Williams: There may be images on there as well.

Detective: And the 2 women from September?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Okay, do you have those images stored anywhere else?

Russell Williams: Yep, they’re um, 2 hard drives in the house in Ottawa. I can draw you a little picture of it.

Detective: Sure. Do you want to do that now while I’m…

Russell Williams: Sure.

Detective: …out getting the map, okay?

Russell Williams: Okay. [clears throat]

Detective: Want anything to eat or anything? I’ll leave that right there, okay?

Russell Williams: Thank you. But I do want to talk to you again.

Detective: That’s the plan, okay? I’ll be right back.

Russell Williams: Okay.

[Door shuts]

Detective: How you making out there? How you making out?

Russell Williams: Alright.

[Door shuts]

Detective: I got somebody running around looking for an actual map but uh, I did the same thing with uh, the Google maps except blew them up a little bit more, um, this is the, this is the biggest of the area. I’m hoping this might have better parameters for you. There’s Tweed.

Russell Williams: Point 7, a kilometer from this intersection on this side of the road.

Detective: And what road is that? Cary?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: South of, can’t read that word, uh, East Hungerford.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Does that make sense? Oh, there it is, there. Okay.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: How far off the road is she?

Russell Williams: 40 feet.

Detective: Is she bur.., is she covered with anything?

Russell Williams: No, she’s wrapped up.

Detective: In what?

Russell Williams: And she’s on the surface. Just a grey something or other cover.

Detective: Okay, very obvious question I’m going to have for you is when they go there, and they’ll be there shortly…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm…

Detective: They’re going to find her?

Russell Williams: Oh yeah.

[edited]

Detective: Okay, I’ll be right back. You look like you want to say something.

Russell Williams: Just that the, this place, my wife, it’s been a dream for her, for a better part of the year so I’m keen to get them what they need and so they can leave her alone.

Detective: Okay, we, uh, we’ll going to do our best to keep it as low key as possible, okay?

[edited]

Detective: Okay, well, what do you want to talk about?

Russell Williams: I guess it’s, uh, pretty wide open now, eh?

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: What do you want to know?

Detective: Well, do you want to work forwards or backwards?

Russell Williams: It doesn’t matter.

Detective: Why don’t we start with Jessica?

Russell Williams: Okay.

Detective: How does that start for you?

Russell Williams: Um, well, I saw her in her house on her treadmill Wednesday night, I guess. And I noticed she wasn’t, uh, there Thursday so I got in the house to look around. Then, um, then I left. Noticed she’d come home, so I went back in through the back patio door while she was, uh, sleeping.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, I woke her up. Didn’t, um, didn’t hit her. I only hit her once, Friday night. [sigh]

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Well, so I raped her in, uh, in her house and then I took her to the car and took her to Tweed and um, spent the day in Tweed and I hit her, um, as we were walking. She thought we were leaving. I hit her on the back of the head.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: You want to know anything particular?

Detective: Well, um, what did the hit on the back of the head do?

Russell Williams: Well, I was surprised it, uh, her, her skull gave way. She was there and immediately unconscious, then I strangled her.

Detective: Okay, what did you hit her with?

Russell Williams: A flash light.

Detective: Okay, in the house or outside the house?

Russell Williams: In the house. Yeah, they’ll find signs of that.

Detective: Where in the house did this happen?

Russell Williams: In the main portion, just in front of the fireplace.

Detective: What do you mean they’ll find signs of it?

Russell Williams: Well, there’s quite a bit of blood I hadn’t expected. I expected to knock her out but obviously generated a lot of blood.

Detective: What did she bleed onto?

Russell Williams: The floor. It’s just a tile floor.

Detective: Okay. Did you clean it up or did you…

Russell Williams: I wiped it up. I know it’ll be, uh, easily spotted.

Detective: What makes you think that? Like, if I walked in that house…

Russell Williams: Well, you wouldn’t notice.

Detective: …right now, would I see it?

Russell Williams: You wouldn’t see it, not at all but uh, you know, the right science will…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Uh, will show it, I’m sure.

Detective: Okay, um, so when that happened was she, did she have clothes on or was she naked?

Russell Williams: Yeah, she was dressed.

Detective: Okay, so when we find her, is she going to have those clothes on, too?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Alright, um, okay, Marie-France, uh, Comeau.

Russell Williams: There was an open window in the basement of her, uh, her house. When she was away I went in there, um, a couple nights before, uh, she came home, looked around. I went back in there, uh, late at night when she was at home. Was on the phone in her bedroom. She actually discovered me in the basement. She was trying to get her cat to come upstairs and the cat was in the basement. It seen me and was fixated on me in the corner. She couldn’t get the cat up, so, uh, she came downstairs. Trying to get the cat and uh, I’m not quite sure why she uh, came over to me. I guess the cat was staring at me and she was wondering why the cat was staring at. The lights were on. So when she spotted me, I, uh, had the same flashlight. I subdued her, tied her up, brought her upstairs. And um, strangled her later in the morning. Well, more suffocated her with some tape [sigh] left her there.

Detective: How do you subdue her, when you said subdue her in the basement, what did you do?

Russell Williams: Well, I had the same flashlight and um, you know it was, she, she saw me right away so it was just, uh, hit her a couple of times and around her head trying and knock her out. Didn’t but um, was bleeding a little bit. Uh, eventually, um, after a struggle, subdued her.

Detective: Okay, any blood from that struggle?

Russell Williams: Oh, yeah. No, not, not a whole bunch but uh, the flashlight did break her skin a couple of times.

Detective: Okay. What area of the basement did that take place in?

Russell Williams: I was hiding behind the furnace, so she spotted me right there.

Detective: Okay, did she recognize you?

Russell Williams: No, I had, uh, stuff on my face.

Detective: Um, so you go upstairs, and you said, uh, she suffocated…

Russell Williams: Well, I suffocated her. I put tape on her, um, I put tape on her mouth and then I put tape on her, uh, nose and held it there so she couldn’t breathe.

Detective: Okay, um, what kind of tape was it?

Russell Williams: Duct tape.

Detective: What happened to it?

Russell Williams: Uh, well, I took it with me and uh, can’t, can’t remember what actually I did with that tape but uh, probably threw it in the garbage.

Detective: Did you use tape for any other purposes?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, um, did she ever recognize you through this whole incident?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: What did you say you had on your face?

Russell Williams: I had, just a, a cover for my head. Just to, you know, uh, a sports, you know, pull over type like just a little cap kind of thing.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Just a [inaudible] or something and a um, just a headband over my nose and mouth so it covered most everything but my eyes.

Detective: Okay, um, now this flashlight, where is that now?

Russell Williams: In Tweed.

Detective: In the house?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: What kind of flashlight is it?

Russell Williams: It’s a red, uh, 3 double D, um, I’m not sure what brand it is but it’s metal, you know, or it’s aluminum. It’s like a big, um, I can’t remember what brand [inaudible] flashlights are [inaudible] yeah, it’s a big bigger one of those.

Detective: Um, did you take anything out of Marie-Frances’ house or Jessica Lloyd’s house?

Russell Williams: Uh, yeah, some of their, uh, underwear.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: That’s all.

Detective: And where’s that?

Russell Williams: Um, it’s in some boxes in the basement here in Ottawa in that wreck room. We just moved in so there’s boxes everywhere so on the same side as the furnace room. It’s sort of the back against the wall.

Detective: Okay, what do the boxes look like?

Russell Williams: Um, I think one’s a scanner, the box for my scanner.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: They’re, they’re all right next to each other so a quick look through the boxes there, you’ll find them.

Detective: How much underwear is in those boxes?

Russell Williams: Um, well, probably 60 pieces or so total.

Detective: All women’s?

Russell Williams: Yeah. 60 pieces of their’s.

Detective: Of who’s?

Russell Williams: Of Jessica’s and uh, Marie-France.

Detective: So, you took 60 pieces from between the 2 of them?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: I think so.

Detective: Alright, uh, and they’re in a like, when you talk about scanners, is it a computer scanner box?

Russell Williams: My computer scanner is up in the office and it’s box is down in the basement, so…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …it’s inside that box.

Detective: Is any of the underwear in those boxes belong to anyone other than Marie-France or uh, or Jessica?

Russell Williams: Um, yeah, there’s some from each of the other 2 women.

Detective: Okay, uh, why don’t we talk about those 2 women?

Russell Williams: Mm.

Detective: Um, so the first one happened on the 16th and I don’t know why I can’t recall their names but uh [edited] the lady that was, uh, the closer to you.

Russell Williams: No, Laurie was closer to me.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So the first uh, the first one [edited]

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: So the first, uh, the first one of them, I just spotted her from her boat actually and I got into the house while she was uh, asleep. Noticed that she was alone and uh, I just hit her with my hand while she was sleeping. Subdued her mostly just my weight on top of her, um, had her, took off her pajamas, took some pictures, took some of her underwear and left.

Detective: And the other woman?

Russell Williams: Same kind of deal, I went through the back of the house. She was sleeping in her, um, not in her bedroom but her, you know, in front of the TV, very much the same story.

Detective: Anything different about that story? I mean, uh, pretty much the same story, exactly the same story are 2 different things, right?

Russell Williams: Yeah, no. Uh, not much difference at all. Um, I did have the flashlight, that time. I hit her with the flashlight and thinking it would knock her out. Didn’t, so I subdued her with my weight, took off her clothes, took some pictures and left.

Detective: Why do you think these things happen?

Russell Williams: [sniff] I don’t know… I don’t know.

Detective: Have you spent much time thinking about that?

Russell Williams: About why?

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: Yeah but I don’t know the answers and I’m pretty sure the answers don’t matter.

Detective: Well, let me, let me ask you this, did you like or dislike these women?

Russell Williams: I didn’t know any of them.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: I had met Marie-France that one time in the, in our airplane.

Detective: Okay, now, uh, I guess what I’m getting at, when you’re going through these things, um, are you in, well let me, Jessica cause she was there with you for the whole day, right?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: What kind of feelings were you experiencing while you were with her that day?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Uh, she’s a very nice girl.

Detective: Can you tell me why you killed her, Russ? Do you know why you killed her?

[edited]

Russell Williams: Well, I think I killed her because I knew that, uh, her story would be recognized.

Detective: Her story would be recognized? How do you mean?

Russell Williams: Well, ‘cause she knew I was taking pictures.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: So, because of the, um, 2, um, stories in Tweed that would have been a fairly…

Detective: Yeah.

Russell Williams: Been quite obvious.

Detective: So, if you didn’t take pictures what would you have done with her?

Russell Williams: I don’t know.

Detective: I mean, she’s at your house, right? Um, well, let me ask you this, us it uh, 2 lived right and 2 died, what’s the difference in your mind between…

Russell Williams: Well, the um, yeah. Would be attention the first 2 got. Um, wasn’t very much focused on obviously, or for obvious reasons, uh, the pictures I took so anybody else telling stories about pictures, right, would have been [sniff] a fairly straight line.

Detective: Okay, but when, when this would happen with Marie-France, was, was, did you, uh, believe that you already a suspect for what happened in Tweed?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: So why, what were you concerned about?

Russell Williams: Well, because um, I was pretty sure that, uh, you know, that she was serving military, right?

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: It would have been, uh, it would have been difficult for investigators to ignore that connection.

Detective: Okay, yeah. Makes sense, um, lets go back to Jessica then. Okay, um, see her on the Wednesday night, right? on her treadmill.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: How do you see her?

Russell Williams: She was in the basement window wide open, on a treadmill, as I drove by.

Detective: Okay. Do you go, did you stop to look at the house or how, how does that catch your eye as you drive by?

Russell Williams: Um, I was looking to see who was, who was where, don’t know that area very well so I was keeping my eyes open.

Detective: Okay, so you spot her on Wednesday?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, do you just keep on going or did you stop and take a closer look that night or anything?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: That night or anything?

Russell Williams: No, I kept going.

Detective: Okay, and you went back on Thursday night, right?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: So back on the Thursday night, and you went, you went into the house before she came home?

Russell Williams: [cough] Yeah, she was out, yeah. Uh, don’t need those. tm, yeah, she was out, got in through the kitchen window. It was unlocked. Everything else was locked.

Detective: Okay, so you’re in there doing what?

Russell Williams: Looking around, looking around to see who lived in the house, it was just her.

Detective: Okay, and then what do you do?

Russell Williams: Well, I left the house and uh, and then she came home, hadn’t been in the house very long. So, I watched for a little bit to see if she as alone. She was. And I went in when she went back to sleep, went to, went to sleep.

Detective: Okay, so you go in, she’s sleeping and what do you do?

Russell Williams: [sighs] well, I, I snuck up to the side of her bed, expecting to uh, try to knock her out. She woke up but she did as I said. I didn’t hit her.

Detective: What did you say?

Russell Williams: I said lie down on your tummy.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: She did and I tied her up.

Detective: What did you tie her up with?

Russell Williams: Some, uh, rope that I brought.

Detective: So she’s on her stomach, how are you tying her up?

Russell Williams: Just tying her, her hands behind her back.

Detective: Okay, she got clothes on at that point?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: What kind of clothes?

Russell Williams: Sweats.

Detective: Alright, tie her hands behind her back and then, then what happens?

Russell Williams: I went and took her clothes off. [sigh]

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: And then what happened?

Russell Williams: I raped her.

Detective: Now rape can mean a lot of different things. What kind of sexual act took place?

Russell Williams: Just, uh, vaginal and oral.

Detective: Okay. Oral, who was preforming the oral sex?

Russell Williams: Uh, me on her and her on me.

Detective: Okay. Any condoms used or anything like that?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: No. So correct me if I’m wrong, vaginal intercourse, her preforming oral sex on you and you preforming oral sex on her?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Do you remember what order those occurred in?

Russell Williams: Yeah. I, um, started with the oral sex, then I raped her. Then later on I made her preform oral sex on me.

Detective: Okay. Anything, any kind of conversation happening when this is going on?

Russell Williams: Yeah, a little bit.

Detective: What was being said?

Russell Williams: Well, I threatened her before she, before I had her perform oral sex.

Detective: What did you say?

Russell Williams: Well, I put a, um, zip tie around her neck and said, uh, that I would pull it if I didn’t like what she was doing.

Detective: Okay. So, she did what you told her to do?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Any issues there? Any reason to pull it?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: So, do you remember if you ejaculated at that point? Or at any point.

Russell Williams: Uh, not at that point but later on.

Detective: Okay, so the oral sex finishes. Then what happens next?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] Well, I continued, um, to rape her and I had her put on some of her underwear. Took some pictures. Lots of pictures. And then uh, got her dressed. Walked back to the truck.

Detective: Okay, at what point did you decide that she was going to leave with you?

Russell Williams:  I’m not sure. That wasn’t uh, necessarily always the plan but at some point uh, I was there for [sigh] be 3, 3 hours, 3 and a bit.

Detective: Okay, um, do you remember the conversation about leaving? Was there any? Did she say anything about that or what was she saying…?

Russell Williams: Well.

Detective: …to you?

Russell Williams: She was um, certainly cooperative.

Detective: Okay, and cooperative can mean a number of different things. Was she excited about leaving with you, and I don’t want to be sarcastic but um…

Russell Williams: No, no. She just didn’t put up too much of a fuss.

Detective: Did she try and negotiate with you at all or…

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: What did she say?

[edited]

Russell Williams: Well, I told her that I would let her go later on.

Detective: Okay, so when you take her out of your house is she is still bound or…

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: How, how is that done?

Russell Williams: Just, uh, hands behind her back.

Detective: Okay, what about her feet? Anything there?

Russell Williams: No, she was walking freely.

Detective: Okay, barefoot or…

Russell Williams: No, no. She had those brown suede shoes on that had been reported.

Detective: Okay, so where does she sit in your truck when you get to your truck?

Russell Williams: Front seat, passenger side.

Detective: Okay and where do you go?

Russell Williams: Straight to Tweed.

Detective: Straight to your house in Tweed or straight…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …to just the town.

Russell Williams: Straight to the house.

Detective: No stops anywhere?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, what time, do you remember what time you arrive there?

Russell Williams: I don’t exactly but I’d say between four thirty and five thirty.

Detective: Okay, alright. And you where, uh, when you were first there before she came home, do you remember did anybody come to the door at all when you were in the house?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Now I think somebody had come home, somebody had come to the house just before she did ‘cause I thought it was her but then they left. I was outside at the time.

Detective: Did you see who that person was or what kind of vehicle they were…

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: …in or anything.

Russell Williams: No, saw the lights and I seen it was her and then all of a sudden they left so I don’t know what happened.

Detective: Okay, um, where were you when that first vehicle pulled up?

Russell Williams: In the back, backyard.

Detective: Okay, so you didn’t have a view of the vehicle, you could just tell that there was a vehicle there.

Russell Williams: I just saw lights.

Detective: …is that fair?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, so you get home about four thirty, five, you said.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, and then what happens?

Russell Williams: Uh, well, she, uh, she had to go to the bathroom and uh, had a quick shower. Washed her and then we went into my bedroom and went to sleep a little bit. She was tied up.

Detective: How was she tied up at that point?

Russell Williams: Just hands behind her back. I had put um, tape over her eyes from the beginning so that’s what she had.

Detective: Okay, when they find her is that tape going to be there or is it ever removed?

Russell Williams: No, I removed it.

Detective: Okay, what kind of tape?

Russell Williams: Duct tape.

Detective: Alright, the duct tape that you used, where is uh, where’s that roll?

Russell Williams: Uh, it’s all done. It, uh, I used it to, I used the rest of it to, uh, bind her, bind her body.

Detective: So, by all gone is it, is it, with the body now?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, so you said who went to sleep when you came home, you had a, or she had a shower?

Russell Williams: Well, we both went in. I washed her off after she’d been to the bathroom. We both went to sleep but she was tied up and I tied the rope, you know, so I could fall asleep a little bit and she could move without waking me up.

Detective: I’m trying to picture how that would be. So, the rope’s tied to what on her?

Russell Williams: It’s tied in her hands.

Detective: Behind…

Russell Williams: Behind her back.

Detective: Okay and…

Russell Williams: And then the rope just wrapped around me a couple times so there was no slack.

Detective: Okay, do you remember how long you slept for?

Russell Williams: Not long, maybe a couple hours.

Detective: Do you know if she slept?

Russell Williams: I don’t know.

Detective: Okay, so you wake up and…

Russell Williams: It wasn’t, I mean, we were up and down, up and down, so it wasn’t 2 hours straight. It was 2 hours in bed but there wasn’t much sleep. Just lying there probably.

Detective: So, you waited or you get up from that and what happens.

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] Um, she had a seizure actually. She felt it coming on and um, cause she’d had some before, lasted, uh, well quite a while. Got her dressed into the, uh, family room and anyway she um, she recovered. She got, uh, you know, was obviously stress but uh, you know, probably, probably went on for about 15 minutes, part of it.

Detective: So…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: How do you know she had them before?

Russell Williams: She told me. [sighs]

Detective: Did she tell you why she gets them?

Russell Williams: Well, she suggested it was stress, yeah, so she felt herself…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: … you know, start to tense up and said she thought she was going to have a seizure. Yeah, so, she was [tapping] she was, it’s you know, convulsions is what she was having.

Detective: Okay so she’s recovered from that.

Russell Williams: Yep, she um, like I stayed with her and talked her through it and made sure she didn’t bite her tongue.

Detective: Okay and then what happened?

Russell Williams: [inhales deeply]  Oh, then we had a little lie down right there because she was obviously exhausted. Put a cover over her and went to sleep, probably for an hour or so.

[silence]

Russell Williams: [sigh] and I told her um, earlier that before I let her go I wanted to take some pictures of her in her underwear and uh, have sex with her so after she’d had uh, a rest for an hour or so I had her uh, put on a number of different outfits she had. [deeply inhales]

Detective: I’m sorry.

Russell Williams: Put on a, a number of, you know, pairs of panties, bras, that she had that I’d taken.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: From the house. So, she put those on and I took pictures.

Detective: Okay, are you in any of these pictures?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Mm. What kind of images, what kind of images are you in?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Um, well, I’m with her, there’s on the hard drives. You’ll see, there’s video as well so there was a video of the, um, you know, almost 4 hours, I guess.

Detective: Of what?

Russell Williams: Well, of, uh, initially at her place of uh, me raping her [sign] and then, uh, yeah, I was running the video and then taking still pictures, so the video pretty much covers everything.

Detective: Did you use video at other places?

Russell Williams: Uh, at, uh, Marie-France’s as well.

Detective: And uh, is that video on the hard drives?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Same type of, uh, activity?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Well, I didn’t have her put on any stuff.

Detective: Okay, so Jessica poses for these pictures and there’s videos and um, and then what happens?

Russell Williams: Then um, I got her dressed. She thought she was leaving. Had a bite to eat, fruit, and then as we were walking out, uh, I struck her on the back of the head.

Detective: Okay, when did you decide to do that?

Russell Williams: Well, I was, uh, pretty sure that I wasn’t going to let her leave but um, you know the idea of striking her on the head was developed in the afternoon.

Detective: And what was the strike supposed to accomplish, in your mind? What was the intent of doing that?

Russell Williams: Well, I thought I would be able to knock her out and then I was, I was going to strangle her.

Detective: Okay, so when you actually do strike her, what, what’s the result?

Russell Williams: Her skull gave way a little bit, felt like. And there was a lot of blood so I think that’s what happened, she was immediately unconscious. And then I, um, strangled her.

Detective: How did you strangle her?

Russell Williams: Uh, the same rope. Just put it around her neck…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …while she was unconscious.

Detective: And what happened to the zip tie that was around her neck earlier?

Russell Williams: I took it off, uh, around then I guess.

Detective: Did you take it off before you put the rope around her neck or, or after or do you remember?

Russell Williams: [inhales deeply] After she was dead. [sigh]

Detective: Oh, okay, so the zip tie was around her neck while you used the rope?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, did you leave the rope around her neck?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, and how did you know she was dead?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] She, um, well her body stopped moving.

Detective: Okay, so what did you do after that?

Russell Williams: I, uh, I bound her up into a, it was fetal position. And uh, cleaned up the floor.

Detective: Now, when you say you bound her up, is that you referring to the duct tape that you talked about earlier?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, so then what did you do?

Russell Williams: I um, put her in the garage. It was very cold, and then I went in to the Base.

Detective: Okay, why did you go to the Base?

Russell Williams: Pardon me?

Detective: Why did you go to the Base?

Russell Williams: Because I was flying early the next morning.

Detective: Okay, so what time did you leave to go to the Base?

Russell Williams: When I told you, about between 9 or 10 or so.

Detective: On Friday night?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, so you fly and…

Russell Williams: [sigh] Then I drove home to Ottawa.

Detective: So which night would you…

Russell Williams: Saturday night.

Detective: So, you land uh, and uh, what time are you landing?

Russell Williams: Six, six thirty.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Saturday night.

Detective: Did you go by the house in Tweed on your way no Ottawa or?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Um, so you drove straight home to Ottawa. What time did you get there at, do you remember?

Russell Williams: Sometime before midnight and I can’t quite remember but uh, I think I went in the office first, did some work, so I think I got home to Ottawa, uh, just before midnight. Something like that, I think. I’m not sure. I, I, slept for a little bit in, at the Tim Hortons in Brockville so it might be later. I honestly can’t remember when I got to Ottawa but…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Yeah, midnight – ish Saturday.

Detective: Mm-hm.

[silence]

Detective: So, you get home here in Ottawa. What do you do? Do you go to bed or…?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … stay up? So, then what do you do the next day?

Russell Williams: Well, my wife and I did some stuff. I can’t remember what, uh, what was going on that day. You know, putting together the new house and I headed back to Tweed that night.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: Is that right? Sorry. Uh, no. I didn’t. I had, uh, I had Monday off. That’s right. I had Monday off and then I was visiting, uh, one of the units in Ottawa on Tuesday so I didn’t head back to Tweed until Tuesday night.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: [clears throat]

Detective: So you get back to Tweed and what happens next?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] I, uh, I took Jessica’s body to that spot.

Detective: Okay, that happened Tuesday night, just this past Tuesday, obviously.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, do you remember what time it was?

Russell Williams: It was pretty late. It was, um, midnight – ish I’d say. Between midnight and one on uh, Wednesday morning.

Detective: Okay, um, what made you decide to measure that distance, that point, 7 kilometers?

Russell Williams: That’s just the way I am. Numbers, I have to know the numbers.

Detective: Okay, and um, how did you leave her?

Russell Williams: I just left her tucked behind a, uh, a fairly large rock.

Detective: Is that duct tape still on her?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, and what else is on her?

Russell Williams: Couple towels wrapped around her head and uh, the top and pants she was wearing. Jeans.

Detective: Okay. Did you ever go back there?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Alright. Um, what other type of cleaning things like that, did you do anything else to kind of cover your tracks that you can think of?

Russell Williams: I vacuumed the house and I, uh, wiped the, the floor, washed the floor.

Detective: Okay, what about your truck, do you do anything with that?

Russell Williams: Just, uh, washed it uh, ‘cause it was a mess and vacuum.

Detective: Okay, um, so Marie-France, when did, uh, when did it first occur to you to go to her house?

Russell Williams: Uh, [sigh] well, probably October, October, November, not quite sure but somewhere in that time period.

Detective: And do you remember why you, that you thought to, um, do that?

Russell Williams: Uh, well, you know, she had said she lived alone on the one time I met her.

Detective: Mm-hm.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

[silence]

Russell Williams: Yeah. [deeply inhales]

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: [sighs]

Detective: Um, I’m just trying to understand like, why her versus you know, the dozens of other women you’ve probably come across.

Russell Williams: I don’t know, you know, I, you know, I went out there when she wasn’t home just to see where she lived and…

Detective: When did you do that?

Russell Williams: Couple nights before.

Detective: And how did you know her address?

Russell Williams: Well, I just headed down the road from the Base here.

Detective: Okay, so when you go out there a couple nights before, do you remember what night that was when you were there the first time?

Russell Williams: I don’t, uh, but I, it’s, it was within 2 or 3 nights, I think.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Oh well, no more than 4 anyway. Something like that.

Detective: And did you actually go into her house on that occasion or did you just uh…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay so what happened that night? How did you, how did you get into her house?

Russell Williams: This window on the side of the basement, side window.

Detective: Okay, and just to back us up a bit, uh, how did you get to her house that, that first night you went there?

Russell Williams: I drove.

Detective: What did you drive?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Uh, I think I drove my truck.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Pathfinder.

Detective: And do you remember where you parked it?

Russell Williams: Yeah, I parked at, um, the, the division in the residential areas there. I parked it on the other side, yeah six, seven hundred metres away.

Detective: Okay, so not on her street?

Russell Williams: On a different street. Do you remember what street you parked on? No, but it’s actually might be the same street but there’s…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: … an interruption in the street where there’s a construction zone so there’s a pathway inbetween so uh, I think it’s probably the same street.

Detective: Okay, so you, uh, you go to her house and when you went there that night did you know she was away?

Russell Williams:  Uh, I’m not sure if I knew entirely but I, I think I thought she was away.

Detective: Okay, is that based on her schedule or, or how it, how would you know that?

Russell Williams: Uh, well yeah, ‘cause I fly with the squadron, I have access to the schedule and…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …it’s, it’s slightly different schedule she has but that’s probably how I knew.

Detective: You don’t know for sure?

Russell Williams:  I think that’s probably how I knew.

Detective: Okay, so you go to her house…

Russell Williams:  Mm-hm.

Detective: …and what do you do that night, the first night?

Russell Williams: Well, I looked around and um, I made sure that she was living there alone.

Detective: … And I’m sorry did, did you say, I can’t remember if you said how, how did you get in?

Russell Williams: Same, same way through the bottom side basement window.

Detective: Side basement window. Do you remember what kind of window it is, like what made it, uh…

Russell Williams: Well, I just noticed that it was well, I noticed with the flashlight, I could see that it was not locked. It had been open slightly so I removed the screen, slid it open, went in.

Detective: Okay, so you go in and uh, you’re in her house figuring out she lives alone and, and, uh, do you do anything that night?

Russell Williams: Yeah, I was playing with her, uh, underwear.

Detective: What do you mean playing with her underwear?

Russell Williams: Well, wearing it.

Detective: Okay, is there anything else?

Russell Williams: Well, I didn’t, I didn’t touch her stuff.

Detective: What do you mean you didn’t touch her stuff? I mean, you touched…

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales]

Detective: …her underwear [inaudible]

Russell Williams: Well, yeah.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: But nothing else.

Detective: Okay, did you take any of the underwear with you that night?

Russell Williams: Yeah, a few pieces.

Detective: And where did you find the underwear when you went in?

Russell Williams: In her drawer.

Detective: Was it clean, was it used or?

Russell Williams: Clean.

Detective: Yeah, um, anything else you can remember doing that evening that you..,?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Alright, so, um, after that first visit did you return again before meeting up with her?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, so which day did you go to her house when she was there?

Russell Williams: Well the night before I went to Ottawa so, I think that was Monday night.

Detective: Alright, um, so let’s walk through that, uh, what time do you think you got there?

Russell Williams: About eleven or so, probably ten thirty, eleven.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Yeah, so she was on the phone in her room. I could hear that, uh, from the back yard. I got in through the uh, side window.

Detective: The same basement window?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: How could you hear her from the backyard, what was uh…

Russell Williams: I could see her on the phone from beside, uh, beside the house. I could hear her through the walls that she was on the phone.

Detective: Okay, any idea who she was talking to or what she was talking about?

Russell Williams: No, I couldn’t hear that well.

Detective: Okay, so you go in through the basement window and what are you wearing when this is happening?

Russell Williams: Um, a sweatshirt and Dockers, I guess and the, um, 2 pieces on my head.

Detective: Okay and where are those 2 pieces now, the pieces that you wore on the head?

Russell Williams: Uh, they’re probably in my bag in, um, my luggage bag, and it’s in the bedroom.

Detective: What does your luggage bag look like?

Russell Williams: It’s, um, blue duffle bag type thing. It’s right beside the bed.

Detective: Okay. There the only blue duffle bag in your bedroom?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Um, and these pieces, what do they look like again?

Russell Williams: It’s a blue headband.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Standard blue, you know, winter head band and uh, black skull cap type thing.

Detective: Okay, any insignias or anything on them?

Russell Williams: Yeah, there are but I don’t know what they are.

Detective: Do you know what…

Russell Williams: The blue headband has something, uh, you know, stitched. Uh, uh, name of some sort stitched on it and the, uh, skull cap has some sort of emblem on it. White emblem on the black. I don’t know what it is.

Detective: Are they like, sports emblems or company emblems or…

Russell Williams: Uh, it’s the manufacturer’s…

Detective: Okay, anything else in that blue, uh, duffle bag?

Russell Williams: I think so.

Detective: Is it full of things other than…

Russell Williams: Just, just my clothes.

Detective: Okay, um, you go in, uh, do you remember what you had on your feet?

Russell Williams: In the house there?

Detective: When you went to Marie-France’s house.

Russell Williams: No, I don’t. Probably running shoes. There wasn’t snow on the ground.

Detective: Okay, so you go in and you’re in the basement and uh, whereabouts in the basement are you?

Russell Williams: Um, by the furnace.

Detective: Okay, and what are you doing? What, what, uh, what’s your, sort of, plan at that point?

Russell Williams: I was waiting for her to go to bed.

Detective: Okay, and how long did that take?

Russell Williams: Well, she didn’t.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So then she came down looking for the cat.

Detective: Alright, and uh, what happens next?

Russell Williams: Well, as I described, I subdued her, hit her with the flashlight, got, essentially wrestled her to the ground, and tied her up.

Detective: Okay, and what did you use to tie her up?

Russell Williams: Same rope. Green rope. It’s in Tweed.

Detective: It is just green or like, uh, how long is this piece of rope?

Russell Williams: Mm… It’s probably, um, 20 feet. It’s a boat, boat rope. It’s got some red specs in it, I think.

Detective: Okay, is there lots of ropes in Tweed or is this probably the only rope.

Russell Williams: No, this, uh, there are 2, 2 lengths.

Detective: 2 lengths of the same green rope?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And were they both used?

Russell Williams: Uh, well, I, I only ever had one with me so I don’t know if I used the same piece both times or not but only 2 lengths of rope.

Detective: Okay, so you tie her, tie her up. How did you tie her up after you subdue her?

Russell Williams: Hands behind her back.

Detective: Okay, and what is she wearing at that point?

Russell Williams: She wasn’t wearing anything to start with.

Detective: So, when she came down to the basement she had no clothes on?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm, she had some sort of shawl over her shoulder…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …which she immediately dropped when she saw me.

Detective: Did she say anything when she saw you?

Russell Williams: She did, she called out “you bastard”.

Detective: Okay, and then what happened?

Russell Williams: Then I subdued her, as I described.

Detective: By hitting her with that red flashlight?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Oh, they were more glancing, glancing blows. Cut her skin but weren’t doing much else.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: She fell over and then I subdued her when she tripped.

Detective: Okay, how did you tie her at that point. Like, I know you used the rope but what were, what did you tie her up, up, like?

Russell Williams: Just told her to put her, well, I pulled her hand behind her back and just tied her wrists together.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: Then, then what happened after that?

Russell Williams: Then I took her upstairs.

Detective: Did she go upstairs under her own power or did you carry her?

Russell Williams: No, she passed out, um, on the stairs and then I carried her up.

Detective: Why do you think she passed out?

Russell Williams: I expect, uh, from the hits to her head.

Detective: So, you carried her up to where?

Russell Williams: To her bedroom, put her on the bed.

Detective: Okay, and then what happened?

Russell Williams: Uh, well as I described I think, I, uh, pushed her on the bed. I raped her over a period of time.

Detective: Okay. In the interest of being specific, what sex acts took place?

Russell Williams: Just vaginal.

Detective: Your penis in her vagina?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Any condom used?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Did you ejaculate?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Did you ejaculate at any point with her?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay. Um, just before I forget, I think I asked you, don’t mean to bounce around here, Russ, with Jessica, I asked you about ejaculation. You said you didn’t at that point. When did you ejaculate with Jessica?

Russell Williams: Um, the second time or third time that I had her, um, perform oral sex.

Detective: And was that at her residence or yours?

Russell Williams: Hers.

Detective: Okay. Any other times you ejaculated with her?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay. Um, when you ejaculated with Jessica did you use anything to clean up or?

Russell Williams. No.

Detective: What happened to the ejaculate?

Russell Williams: She swallowed it.

Detective: Um, okay, so getting back to Marie-France, it’s just straight vaginal sex, no condom, no ejaculation. Is that right?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Okay, um, how long does that go for, like how long were you engaged in that activity?

Russell Williams: [sigh] uh, [sigh] couple, well, hour and a half, two hours, I guess.

Detective: Okay and then what happens next?

Russell Williams: Well, as I described I suffocated her using, um, duct tape.

Detective: Why did you decide to do that?

Russell Williams: Well, again, because of the pictures kind of, as I described to you it would’ve, um, it was going to be a pretty straight line back to Tweed.

Detective: Okay, but why, why, why did you decide to use that method versus something else?

Russell Williams: Just, I had, uh, thought about strangling her earlier. It’s on the video.

Detective: What is?

Russell Williams: My, uh, well, it was a short-lived attempt because she struggled quite a bit and I decided that I needed to suffocate her.

Detective: So, uh, it was a short lived attempt to strangle her and what’s on the video? The suffocation or the strangling?

Russell Williams: Well, just me putting my hand around her throat and then her uh, responding, you know, no surprise, very aggressively.

Detective: Okay. Any videos of the, uh, suffocation part or pictures of that?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Um, now, you, you mentioned that you brought the rope with you. Where did the duct tape come from?

Russell Williams: I brought it.

Detective: Okay, and what did you do with it afterwards?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] I think it uh [sigh] that it stayed in Tweed.

Detective: What color of duct tape are we talking about? I know it comes in a variety of colors but…

Russell Williams: Grey.

Detective: Grey. Um, so before, uh, the suffocation, uh, obviously, how, how long do you think you were with her from the point, well, how long do you think you were in that house from the point you went in that window to the point you left?

Russell Williams: Probably, um, 4 hours.

Detective: Okay, so correct me if I’m wrong, did you say you would’ve gotten there at 11 or around 11?

Russell Williams: I think that’s right.

Detective: Okay so like, you left around 3 in the morning?

Russell Williams: Well, I was in the basement for quite a while before she came down, like she wasn’t going to bed so I was probably in the basement for 30, 40 minutes.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: So, by the time she saw me it was probably closer to midnight…

Detective: Alright, um…

Russell Williams: …but I didn’t have a watch on so I’m not sure.

Detective: …any gloves?

Russell Williams: [sigh] I don’t think so.

Detective: Did you wear gloves with Jessica?

Russell Williams: Uh, only to get in the house. It was a very cold night.

Detective: Well, what about the 2 women in, uh, in Tweed?

Russell Williams: No gloves.

Detective: Okay, so while you’re with Marie-France, what kind of conversations are taking place, you anything in she said to stick out in your mind?

Russell Williams: No, no. I taped her mouth. There’s no conversation.

Detective: Okay, when did you tape her mouth?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Soon as I got her up to the bedroom.

Detective: Why did you decide to do that?

Russell Williams: Because she was, uh, you know, quite aggressive.

Detective: In what way?

Russell Williams: I was confident she was, uh, would have screamed given the chance…

Detective: What way was…

Russell Williams: … because she did initially.

Detective: Did she?

Russell Williams: In the basement.

Detective:  So, in what way was she aggressive?

Russell Williams: Oh, just in, you know, when she discovered me she was very vocal, screamed quite a bit until I subdued her so I expected she would scream again given the chance.

Detective: Okay, do you remember how you left her residence?

Russell Williams: Back door, patio door.

Detective: Okay, did you take anything with you that night?

Russell Williams: Some of her underwear.

Detective: Anything else?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Alright, um, did you do anything else to try and uh, cover your tracks with Marie-France?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhale] um, well, I had turned off my Blackberry before I left Trenton. Other than that, no.

Detective: Do you remember trying to destroy any kind of evidence there the, or anything you thought may have uh, produced evidence or anything?

Russell Williams: Oh, I took her sheets off the bed and ran them through the laundry.

Detective: Like the laundry, where at?

Russell Williams: In her house.

Detective: Okay, did you run them completely through? Did you wait for it to finish or…?

Russell Williams: No, I just put them in and put a whole bunch of bleach in and let it go.

Detective: Okay, so the night you went to her house and got there at 11, you came from where, like you said, you left Trenton.

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: You turned off your Blackberry. You did, you talking about the Base or you talking about, uh, where did you leave to go to her house?

Russell Williams: Well, no, I just turned off my Blackberry before I left the Trenton area. [sigh] Um, I would’ve left from the Base after work.

Detective: Alright, when did you turn your, when did you, uh, what time do you think you turned your Blackberry off?

Russell Williams: Well, it’s only a half hour drive to Brighton so you know, probably in the nine, nine thirty range.

Detective: Do you remember what, uh, what time you would’ve turned it back on?

Russell Williams: When I was back on the 401 heading to Ottawa the next morning.

Detective: What time would that have been?

Russell Williams: So, six, plus or minus 30 minutes.

Detective: Okay, so you leave her house three-ish.

Russell Williams: No, I, I think it was later that, that so 4 hours obviously it was… I think, uh, yeah, I think I went in about 11, was in the basement for quite a while. Probably left her house closer to four, four thirty, something like that.

Detective: Okay, and where do you go?

Russell Williams: Uh, I drove to Ottawa.

Detective: Straight to Ottawa?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Did you go by your house in Tweed or anything or do you just go straight home?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Do you remember what route you took?

Russell Williams: Uh, yeah. 401, uh, from her place. Uh, I think I went straight north on, uh, whatever the road is that goes straight through Brighton up to the 401, hit the 401 and headed East.

Detective: Okay, and so you’re going to what’s the meeting, you’re having that day in Ottawa. Remind me.

Russell Williams: It’s a meeting on, uh, the C17 acquisition project.

Detective: Okay, and who ran that meeting?

Russell Williams: [deeply inhales] The project manager, Miss Sue Hale.

Detective: Okay, is that the only meeting around that time period you would’ve went to on that issue with Sue Hale?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: There wasn’t like a weekly meeting or anything like that?

Russell Williams: No, this is sort of a quarterly.

Detective: Alright. Um, so, the night you went, the night this happened, uh, where did you park, uh, that night?

Russell Williams: As I said, across the gravel little roadway probably and it’s probably the same road…

Detective: Okay, same, uh, location to the first night?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Alright. Same, same vehicle?

Russell Williams: Yeah, truck.

Detective: Yeah, alright, um, okay. Let’s talk about uh, the, oh, seeing how’s, we’re going backwards in time here, why don’t we talk about the second incident in Tweed. Um, with, uh, Laurie Massicotte. The that that’s uh, at 76 Cozy Cove. How did you, uh, decide on her?

Russell Williams: I knew she lived alone. That’s it.

Detective: And how did you know that?

Russell Williams: Well, she lives 3 doors down and uh, didn’t know her but I knew she is pretty alone. She had boyfriend and hadn’t seemed to be, hadn’t been around so [sigh] you know, um, looked in the window and she was alone.

Detective: So, she, she had a boyfriend but he wasn’t…

Russell Williams: He wasn’t there.

Detective: …too frequently, okay.

Russell Williams: Well, he wasn’t, uh, she told me that they were fighting so that’s why he hadn’t been there.

Detective: Okay, so um, did you look in her house before the night that this, this incident happened or when did you do that?

Russell Williams: Yeah, I’d been in, uh, within the week, probably a couple nights earlier.

Detective: What did you do that night?

Russell Williams: I, um, I looked around to see if there were any permanent signs of her boyfriend, I guess. Took, uh, 1 or 2 pieces of her underwear, that’s all.

Detective: Okay, so the night you go there…

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: Uh, when the incident happens, uh, do you remember what time it was?

Russell Williams: It was pretty late. Um, I probably got into the house around midnight. She was asleep on the couch though. I didn’t know that, but I knew she was in there.

Detective: And how did you get in? Sorry.

Russell Williams: Uh, window in the back of the house. There’s a little sunroom.

Detective: Was it just something you had to slid or, or how did you..?

Russell Williams: I had to remove the screen and uh, and slide it up.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: [sigh] So I got into the house and uh, she was asleep in front of the TV.

Detective: Wearing anything on your face that night?

Russell Williams: Yeah, same things.

Detective: Okay, the headband and the uh, the cap.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, um, what kind of clothes did you have on?

Russell Williams: Just dark sweatshirt or pants.

Detective: Alright, so she’s asleep on the couch. You’re in there and then what happens?

Russell Williams: [laugh] We have been through this, eh.

Detective: I know.

Russell Williams: I struck her with the, uh, flashlight thinking it would knock her out. It didn’t. We struggled. I subdued her, took some pictures, left. Was probably in the house about two, two and a half hours.

Detective: That’s a pretty short description for two and a half hours.

Russell Williams: Well, we talked. I, uh, I told her I wasn’t going to hurt her. I, uh, told her that there were other guys in the house robbing her. My job was just to control her. [sigh]

Detective: What did she say to that?

Russell Williams: She was scared and was worried she was going to be seriously hurt.

Detective: Did she say that or did you…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: … just assume that?

Russell Williams: No, no. She said that she was, she was worried she was going to be killed. I said I’m not going to kill you.

Detective: What did you do with, uh, you said you took pictures of her, um, clothed, unclothed?

Russell Williams: Uh, both. Clothed initially and then unclothed.

Detective: Okay, are you in any of those pictures?

Russell Williams: Don’t think so.

Detective: You just took them of her. What kind of camera are you using by the way? It’s a….

Russell Williams: It’s a digital, uh, Sony.

Detective: Do you just have the one camera?

Russell Williams: Yeah, and the video camera.

Detective: Oh, so they’re 2 separate…

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: …cause some cameras take video, right?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Um, and where is the camera and the, and the video camera?

Russell Williams: It’s in Tweed.

Detective: Is it the only camera and video camera in that house?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, alright, um, so you take pictures of her and how do you end up leaving? Do you, uh…

Russell Williams: Oh, I just told her to, um, I don’t know, count or wait for, uh, a number of minutes before, uh, before she called the police.

Detective: Okay, and did you leave immediately, or did you stay there for a while…

Russell Williams: Well, uh…

Detective: …see what she was going to do or?

Russell Williams: I left.

Detective: Um, and where do you go?

Russell Williams: Home.

Detective: Straight home?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, did you, did you wait to see if police showed up or anything or…

Russell Williams: No, no, it’s uh, you know… [deeply inhales]

Detective: So what did you do when you got home?

Russell Williams: … couple hundred feet. Uh, I went to sleep.

Detective: Okay, and what did you do the next day?

Russell Williams: Went to work, normal time.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Couple hours later.

Detective: Alright, um, do you remember how, uh, her clothing was removed?

Russell Williams: [sigh] uh, well, cause her hands were tied behind her back I think I cut off her top and then pulled off her bottom.

Detective: What did you use to cut her top?

Russell Williams: Um, I can’t remember if it was a knife or like a folding Exacto knife or Leatherman or one of the two.

Detective: Are these items that are in your house in Tweed?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, is there every any other time you used a, a, a knife to cut off clothing or anything else? Do you remember?

Russell Williams: Uh, I cut off Jessica’s top with a knife ‘cause her hands were tied behind her back. That’s all.

Detective: Okay, where’s that knife, which knife did…

Russell Williams: Same.

Detective: …you use?

Russell Williams: That was the Leatherman.

Detective: That was the Leatherman.

Russell Williams: Tweed.

Detective: Okay, is it the only Leatherman in, in Tweed?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, um, so on the 16th of September, uh, [edited] when you went that night, was that the first time you’d been in her house?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: Okay, and why her?

Russell Williams: Just ‘cause I’d seen her and she was cute. That’s it.

Detective: Okay, so there was no, um, you didn’t go into her house before that?

Russel Williams: [deeply inhale]

Detective: …that night.

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Alright, um, so you go in and how did you get into her house?

Russell Williams: Side window, the, uh, was not locked. Cut the screen, slid the window, crawled in.

Detective: Okay, and uh, what are you wearing?

Russell Williams: Same. Sweatshirt, dark pants.

Detective: And the same hat and…

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Okay, uh, and where do you find, uh, [edited]?

Russell Williams: In bed, asleep.

Detective: Okay, and what do you do?

Russell Williams: [Deeply inhales] Stood over her for a while and then I, uh, hit her on the left side of her head, just with my hand. Just woke her up. We struggled then I just lay on her. And uh, very much like I described a little but ago. Took off her, pulled her top down and took off her pants. Took some pictures and left.

Detective: Do you remember her saying anything to you?

Russell Williams: Yes.

Detective: What does she say to you?

Russell Williams: Well, all kinds of things. Um, you know, she had a, a young baby just uh, next door. The other room, 8 months or so. So obviously concerned about the baby. Concerned for herself. I assured her I was not going to hurt her. Physically, anyway. [deeply inhale]

Detective: Okay, um, any underwear taken from [edited]

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: Or Laurie?

Russell Williams: Yeah, both.

Detective: And where would they be located?

Russell Williams: In Tweed.

Detective: And why are they in Tweed as opposed to uh, um, Marie-France and Jessica’s underwear.

Russell Williams: I don’t know.

Detective: Do you remember how much of their underwear you took?

Russell Williams: Um [sigh] not very much from Laurie. [edited]

Detective: Okay, do they know that you took their underwear?

Russell Williams: I don’t know.

Detective: You didn’t discuss it with them or anything. Um, so where in Tweed would their underwear be?

Russell Williams: [sigh] Um, in the, uh, laundry room area…

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: …just between the house and the garage.

Detective: Right.

Russell Williams: [sigh]

Detective: Where in the laundry room area would they be kept?

Russell Williams: There’s a cupboard, uh, up top. They’re in a duffle bag.

Detective: What does the duffle bag look like?

Russell Williams: It’s a green Army duffle bag.

Detective: Okay, are they all in the same duffle bag? Is there anything else in the duffle bag?

Russell Williams: [sigh] just underwear.

Detective: Okay, um, when these, when these pictures uh, are looked at, um, you talked about being in Marie-France’s underwear on the first night, you went in. Did you take photographs of that?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: What about anybody else’s underwear?

Russell Williams: Yeah, photos.

Detective: Of you in their underwear?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And where were those photos taken?

Russell Williams: Um, well, sometimes in as in, in Marie-France’s case, in her house [sigh]. The others in my house.

Detective: In Tweed.

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: So, was this the matter, you take and later go back and, and then at some point looking around and take pictures…What about Jessica’s underwear?

Russell Williams: Uh, she’s only her, really.

Detective: So, you don’t have pictures of you in her underwear?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, alright. Um, okay, well, I guess, uh, I just have a couple of questions for you, I mean, I’m sure there’s going to be more questions but I guess what’s on my mind right now, uh, Russ, is um, what made you decide to tell me this tonight?

Russell Williams: Mostly to make my wife’s life easier.

Detective: Okay. Is what you told me tonight the truth?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: Okay, how do you feel about what you’ve done? Like what, uh…

[silence]

Russell Williams: Disappointed.

Detective: Okay. Let me ask you this. If, um, if this didn’t come to the point it’s at right now, if for whatever reason you didn’t end up on our, on our radar so to speak, uh, do you think it would’ve happened again?

Russell Williams: I was hoping not but I can’t answer that question but [edited]

Detective: Okay, um, not too much here, Russ. Just a few details that I wanted to cover off and specifically dealing with Marie-France. Um, in the basement of her house, um, there’s a hole in the, uh, drywall. Do you recall how that happened?

Russell Williams: Whereabouts?

Detective: Uh, I don’t know specifically but it’s downstairs.

Russell Williams: I don’t remember that, no.

Detective: Okay, do you remember doing anything with her in the basement, uh, where you may have used some clothing or something to, uh, secure her?

Russell Williams: Yeah, I tied her up against one of the, uh, poles in the basement initially and I went outside and put the screen back on and secured the window.

Detective: Okay, while she was tied to the pole.

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: And what was your thinking behind doing that at that point?

Russell Williams: Just to cover up how I’d come in.

Detective: Okay, um, now by the time she’s tied to that pole, is that in the very initial few minutes kind of thing, of the confrontation or?

Russell Williams: It was shortly after I’d subdued her and tied her up, yes.

Detective: Okay, does she have duct tape on her mouth yet?

Russell Williams: I think probably.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: The pictures will show it.

Detective: Alright, now in the upstairs bathroom, by her bedroom, there’s uh, looks like something’s occurred in there. Do you remember that?

Russell Williams: Yep.

Detective: What happened there?

Russell Williams: She had passed out on the bed and I had gone to look out the front window to see if anybody was coming and uh, she got up and closed the bedroom door and raced into the bathroom trying to uh, get somebody’s attention but her mouth was taped and her hands were tied.

Detective: Okay. What did you do as a result of that?

Russell Williams: Well, I just got in and subdued her again and got, got her back into the bedroom.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Didn’t do anything, just regained control of her.

Detective: Okay, if I remember correctly there’s a bit, little bit of blood in there. Do you know where that blood would’ve, how that, that would have occurred?

Russell Williams: All the blood was from the initial hits as I was trying to subdue her.

Detective: Okay.

Russell Williams: Her skin breaking with the, uh, blows to her head.

Detective: Okay, do you recall blood being in the bathroom?

Russell Williams: No, actually. I didn’t have the light on in there but it doesn’t surprise me.

Detective: Okay. Um, there’s a pair of underwear and some socks on the floor of that bathroom that belong to her. Do you remember how they got there? Remember seeing them?

Russell Williams: I don’t, didn’t see them, no.

Detective: Okay, what do you recall doing to her breasts, it’s pretty clear that there was some, something happened to her breasts. Do you remember what that might have been?

Russell Williams: Mm, no. I, I certainly touched her breasts. I didn’t do anything to hurt them.

Detective: Don’t remember that?

Russell Williams: No.

Detective: Okay, alright, um, well Russ…

Russell Williams: Now, when I suffocated her, she was on her, her front so it may have been something there but…

Detective: What do you mean?

Russell Williams: Well, she was lying on the floor in the bedroom as I suffocated her and obviously struggled. It may have been in there that something happened, but I didn’t do anything specific to her breasts.

Detective: Okay. So, what do you suffocate her, that’s when you had the duct tape over her mouth and nose?

Russell Williams: Mm-hm.

Detective: And that’s on the floor?

Russell Williams: Yeah.

Detective: And um, then what happens after that?

Russell Williams: Well, she died and I, um, then took the duct tape off her head and put her on the bed and covered her up with the duvet.

Detective: Okay, and what was your thinking behind doing that?

Russell Williams: I don’t know. Nothing really.

Detective: Okay, alright. Um, as you might expect your arrest, uh, certainly, uh, even now one of the uh, Ottawa investigators mentioned to me that um, there’s a number of incidents that uh, that have done unsolved over the years…[cough]

Russell Williams: Can I, I was going to get into that, can I go to the washroom quickly?

Detective: Yeah, I can get somebody to take you to the washroom. Okay.

Categories
Police Interrogations Uncategorized

Jerrod Murray Interrogation Transcript

In December 2012, Generro Sanchez was murdered by another student at East Central University, Jerrod Murray. Although Sanchez lived down the hall from Murray, they only knew one another through a mutual friend. Murray asked Sanchez for a ride to a nearby Wal-Mart. Upon their arrival, Murray pulled a gun out and demanded to be driven to a town North of Ada. On a small road in the country, Murray shot Sanchez in the head as he drove. In the interrogation Murray shows no remorse and was later found not guilty by reason of insanity. The case summary can be found here.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-AZhv5Gpwk]

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkRbdb7gE10]

Jerrod Murray Interrogation Transcript

[Door opens]

Investigator: Ready? Okay Jerrod. Now, my name is Sherriff [inaudible] Palmer. And me and you met on the side of State Highway 177 and [inaudible] road at about 3:12 this morning, didn’t we?

Jerrod Murray: Yes sir.

Investigator: Okay. And at that time, you made a couple of statements to me when I put you down on the ground and then after we got up, I read your rights to you, correct?

Jerrod Murray: Ah, you read my rights before I got up, sir.

Investigator: Okay. Before you got up off the ground.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: But you did make a couple of statements…

Jerrod Murray: Yes sir, I made some statements, sir.

Investigator: Before I read you your rights without me asking you anything.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Um, you just, you told me you were the guy I was trying to find.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay, and then I read your rights to you.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And those rights were – you have the right to remain silent…

Jerrod Murray: The Miranda Rights, sir.

Investigator: Okay. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: You have the right to talk to an attorney and have them present while being questioned.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And if you do not afford to hire one, one will be appointed to represent you.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And I asked you then if you wanted to talk to me.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And you agreed to talk.

Jerrod Murray: Ah, at the time I said no but, didn’t I?

Investigator: No. I read your rights to you…

Jerrod Murray: But when you asked if I wished to talk to you about it…

Investigator: You said you didn’t know, and then…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, that’s right.

Investigator: And then you said “yes, I already told you so…

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: I might as well. Is that correct?

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: Okay. After that, during that drop do you remember what you told me after I read your Miranda warning to you?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, not word for word but the effect, yes.

Investigator: Okay. What do you remember telling me?

Jerrod Murray: uh, in summation that I’m guilty, yes.

Investigator: Of what?

Jerrod Murray: Of murder.

Investigator: And who did you murder?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, Generro.

Investigator: Okay, and how did you murder him?

Jerrod Murray: With a gun. I shot him in the head, twice. Three shots were fired. One missed.

Investigator: And where did you shoot, where was this, where did this happen at?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, around five miles north of Asher, Oklahoma, on a side road.

Investigator: Do you know what that side road is called?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Do you know what’s on the corner of that side road?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, power, uh station, sir.

Investigator: Like a substation…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir. [cross talk]

Investigator: Okay, and does that road go all the way through?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir. It turns, uh, left.

Investigator: Okay and you have knowledge of this?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Are you from that area?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And your mom and dad’s house isn’t too far from there?

Jerrod Murray: Um, maybe a half a mile to three quarters of a mile, sir.

Investigator: Okay and can you get to your mom and dad’s house by going down that road?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay, um, and you [inaudiable] shot this guy while he was driving his pickup down the road.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay. Okay. And that’s basically what you told me on the side of the road.

Jerrod Murray: In summation, yes, sir.

Investigator: And in fact, we did find, we had already found the pickup and there was a body next to it in a ditch.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay. And that’s what we’re going to talk about now. Is that…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Are you okay with that?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So you’re agreeing to talk to me again?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay. Give me your full name.

Jerrod Murray: Jerrod Landreth Wayne Murray.

Investigator: And what’s your date of birth?

Jerrod Murray: July the twentieth, 1994.

Investigator: Okay, and do you live and dad?

Jerrod Murray: Hm?

Investigator: Do you stay with your mom and dad?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, no.  I lived in the dormitories in college. Before then I lived with my grandparents in town.

Investigator: In town of Asher?

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: Okay, um, what do you use for an address?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, the, my parents house, yes.

Investigator: And what is that?

Jerrod Murray: Four hundred, four-zero-zero-five-five Ingram Drive. Ah, Asher, Oklahoma 78426.

Investigator: Ingram?

Jerrod Murray: Yes. I-N-G-R-A-M

Investigator: I-M-G

Jerrod Murray: I-N-G-R-A-M

Investigator: Okay, um, and so you go to school at East Central?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And is this your first year of college?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, you’re a freshman at East Central.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And you said you stay at some dorms?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And what’s the name of your dorm?

Jerrod Murray: Pesagi Dormitory, sir.

Investigator: Can you spell that for me?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, P-E-S-A-G-I, I believe, sir.

Investigator: T-E-S-A-G-I?

Jerrod Murray: P-E-S…

Investigator: P-E-S…

Jerrod Murray: uh, A-G-I.

Investigator: Okay, and that’s in Ada.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And the young man, that you said to me you shot twice in the head…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And his name, do you know his whole name?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, no, sir. I only know his first name.

Investigator: And his first name is what?

Jerrod Murray: Generro. I do not know how to spell that but it is with a “G”.

Investigator: Okay. And do you go to school with him?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And do you stay in the same dorm?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, the same building, sir.

Investigator: Same building. And what’s your dorm number?

Jerrod Murray: 463D.

Investigator: 463B?

Jerrod Murray: D.

Investigator: D?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Do you know his?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, no. But I know it’s in “E” section.

Investigator: E section. And how do you know him?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, towards the beginning of the year we met in a mutual friend’s room, uh, playing video games, sir.

Investigator: Okay. And do you take any classes with him?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: So, you know him through a mutual friend and you guys dormed in the same dorm.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Different sections.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir, but it’s literally right down the hall.

Investigator: Okay. So, you spend quite a bit of time together?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, no, sir.

Investigator: Okay. Okay. Um, the pickup that was, he was in tonight and you was in. Was that his pickup or your pickup?

Jerrod Murray: I’m fairly sure it was his, sir.

Investigator: Okay. And you remember what kind of pickup that was?

Jerrod Murray: Um, black. [laughs] I’m sorry. I don’t…

Investigator: Okay, you don’t…

Jerrod Murray: I don’t know much about cars.

Investigator: Okay. But single cab…

Jerrod Murray: Single cab, black, uh, dent on the passenger side.

Investigator: Okay and can you go back and tell me how you guys hooked up tonight? Or [cross talk] this is actually, we’re talking right now at, we’re at almost 6 o’clock in the morning so can you go back and tell me when you guys would have gotten together?

Jerrod Murray: Maybe around [clears throat], maybe around 9 o’ clock yesterday evening.

Investigator: So, on the fifth.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, uh, maybe it was closer to ten.

Investigator: Okay. Nine to ten. And how did you guys hook up?

Jerrod Murray: I went down to his dorm room and asked if I could be given a ride to Wal-Mart in exchange for $20 gas money.

Investigator: Okay. Did he agree to that?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay. And did he, in fact, take you to Wal-Mart?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir. We got in his pickup truck and he drove me to Wal-Mart.

Investigator: So, you’re talking about the Wal-Mart in Ada?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay, and that’s a couple miles from the school?

Jerrod Murray: Uh. 2.2, ah, no, 1.7 miles, sir.

Investigator: 1.7 miles?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay. Um, so he took you to Wal-Mart…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Did you both go in?

Jerrod Murray: No, we did not go in, sir.

Investigator: And why not?

Jerrod Murray: We pulled into the parking lot and then I pulled the, um, weapon on him and demanded that he take me to Asher, Oklahoma, sir.

Investigator: Okay. And why, all of the sudden, did you decide that you needed to go to Asher?

Jerrod Murray: Because I was planning to take him out to the country and kill him.

Investigator: Okay. So, when you got him at the dorm, was your intention never to go to Wal-Mart?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: You was, in fact, was you at that point, already in your mind, was going to take him and kill him?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Um, had he done something to you that…

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Okay. So you just, can you kind of tell me, when you made this decision that you were going to take him and kill him? Why?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I made the decision three days prior to the incident. Uh, attempted to do it two days prior to the incident but he was not in his room and then did so today, as he was in his room.

Investigator: Okay, so, you been, you been, planning to do this for two days.

Jerrod Murray: Uh, two weeks, yes.

Investigator: Two weeks?

Jerrod Murray: But not with a selected individual, no.

Investigator: Okay. And when did you get to the point when you knew it was going to be him?

Jerrod Murray: That was three days prior to the incident.

Investigator: And why him?

Jerrod Murray: Uh.

Investigator: There’s other kids in college, why, why him?

Jerrod Murray: I believed he would have had the least impact, sir.

Investigator: Impact of, of what?

Jerrod Murray: I believed he didn’t have many friends or many close friends, I should rephrase. And as his [clears throat] he is going missing; his absence would be less notable.

Investigator: Okay. So, what if… tomorrow at school nobody would think anything of it.

Jerrod Murray: That was the plan, sir, yes.

Investigator: Okay, and so why did you choose to take him to Asher to kill him?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, my plan was for my killing him I was going to head north towards Canada and Asher was further north than Ada. So…

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: And I knew the surrounding terrain and I knew a good spot. I didn’t have that spot planned in particular. If I had planned that far ahead, I would have had a grave dug, but I knew the general area.

Investigator: Okay, so you brought him to that area because you knew that area because you were raised there.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And that’s the road you would travel going back and forth to your mom and dad’s house?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, no, sir. I would travel the road further to the south of it. Just the road one south to it. That’s the road I would travel to my mother’s house from the school on my bus route, sir.

Investigator: Okay, but what I’m saying to you, you were familiar with that road…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And where it would go to…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Um, not much traffic on that road at this time…

Jerrod Murray: Yes sir. The only people that go on that road are people who live on that road, sir.

Investigator: Okay. You knew that.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, when you pulled the gun on him at Wal-Mart, in the parking lot…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Um, what did you tell him?

Jerrod Murray: I told him to take me to Asher.

Investigator: Asher. And did he say anything?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, he panicked. Uh, he went to pull out his phone. I yanked the phone out of his hand and then he panicked some more. Kept telling me not to kill him. To make him feel more comfortable I unloaded the clip, unloaded the bullet from the chamber and then handed them over to him. And that eased his nerves a little. Then I pulled a second clip out of my pocket and set it on my lap.

Investigator: Okay. And you drove, so he drove you.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And did you have any conversation between Ada and Asher?

Jerrod Murray: The entire time was conversation, sir.

Investigator: And was it basically, could you tell me what that conversation was?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, about from Ada to halfway to Asher it was my trying to reaffirm him that I wasn’t going to kill him to calm his nerves. And then from that point on we was us talking about our upbringings, our past, our family histories, things of [inaudible] nature, etcetera etcetera.

Investigator: And, so, did he say anything when you had him pull off of the main highway onto this dirt road?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir. Ah, before this time I had pulled out his phone and uh, pulled up his GPS and showed him where I [inaudible] to make him feel more comfortable, sir.

Investigator: Okay, and so when you turned west off of 177, and there’s, we already talked about this, there’s a substation there…

Jerrod Murray: Um, we didn’t pull onto that road, sir. We pulled onto the road south of it, drove past Turkey Hill Road, turned left, went to around where the [inaudible] live to make another left. Past [inaudible] Estates, went straight and then went down that road from the other direction.

Investigator: So, you came in from the west side of where the pickup is at?

Jerrod Murray: West then east, yes.

Investigator: Okay, and, so you’re headed east on what is known as Substation Road which is the road where the pickup…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Is at now.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, you’re headed east and he’s driving.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: You’re on the passenger side. He’s got some bullets that you gave him.

Jerrod Murray: Yeah, the clip and one round, yes.

Investigator: Okay. And where was that at?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, in his left hand, sir.

Investigator: Okay. Then you had the gun…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And… What kind of gun?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, Springfield Armory XD40 Smith and Wesson 40 Caliber.

Investigator: Okay. And you had the gun and another magazine, but you didn’t have the magazine in the gun.

Jerrod Murray: I did not have the magazine in the gun. Every five to ten minutes he had me, uh, put my finger in where the clip goes to uh, show that the round, it wasn’t chambered.

Investigator: Okay. So, you’re driving East, and I guess at some point, did you decide now was the time?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay, and what happened?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I loaded the gun, quickly, chambered the round, quickly. Shot once, missed. Shot a second time, hit. Jumped out of the car. Went around, he was driving 10-15 miles an hour, so it was rather slow, uh, ran around the front of the car. And of course, it was slower, he wasn’t purposefully driving. Uh, tried to pull him out, couldn’t get him out till he had already hit the tree. Pulled him out there, dumped him into, no. Uh, before I dumped him into the ditch, I heard him like gurgling. I’m not sure if that’s a physiological or physical process after death but uh, I had thought that he may have still lived through that somehow because he was gurgling so I shot him again and then shoved him down to the ditch. I then grabbed his phone….

Investigator: Hang up, let’s back up just a second.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: You, um, fired the first round…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And you missed.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Do you know where that round hit?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I believe it hit the top of the door, but it might have hit the window.

Investigator: Did the window bust?

Jerrod Murray: The window did bust, sir, but I don’t remember if that was the first or second round.

Investigator: Okay. So, you fired once, missed.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Then you fired the second round…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And did you hit him then?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And you hit him in the head.

Jerrod Murray: In the side of the head, yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay, so, it would have been his right…

Jerrod Murray: It would have been right here, sir.

Investigator: The right-hand side of his head…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Somewhere by the ear.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And he was, started veering off the road.

Jerrod Murray: To the left, sir.

Investigator: Okay, and that’s when you got out and ran around…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And you opened the door?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And you tried to pull him out…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And, so when you shot, and he was still gurgling.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, was he sitting up when you shot him again?

Jerrod Murray: No. He was lying down on the ground.

Investigator: So you pulled him out of the truck…

Jerrod Murray: And just through him on the ground and then I heard him gurgling so I shot him a second time.

Investigator: And where did hit him the second time.

Jerrod Murray: I’m not certain but I believe the head as well.

Investigator: In the front, back, side?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I believe it was the same side as…

Investigator: Same side as before?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, you think you hit him twice, or you know, you know you hit him in a fact once in the head. Then the second round is probably in the head area too.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And then you rolled him down the ditch?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And then what did you do then?

Jerrod Murray:  I, uh, grabbed his phone from inside the vehicle. I was going to put it on the ground and shoot it as well, but I have a bit of night-blindness and didn’t see the steepness of the hill where it started to veer down. So, I threw it down and it slid down the hill, uh, it landed screen side down so I wasn’t able to find it’s location.

Investigator: Okay, so his phone is somewhere around his body?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, yes, it should be. It might be underneath his body.

Investigator: Okay. And did you do something with his body after that?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, yes sir. I repositioned it and then I tried to cover it, uh, admittedly not well, with leaves, dirts and a stick.

Investigator: Okay, a stick?

Jerrod Murray: Yes. There was a stick on the side of the hill. I just grabbed everything on the side of the hill and uh, pushed it on top of him.

Investigator: Okay, now, when you say a stick, I, I was at the scene, I went down there and you know that…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: uh, actually brought you back down there and you sat in the car down there, correct?

Jerrod Murray: Mm-Hm.

Investigator: And there is a stick, about three-foot-long, about inch, inch and a half in diameter…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Found it by the body but there’s a whole bunch of blood on it. Is there any particular reason that stick…

Jerrod Murray: It had blood on it? Uh, it could be because I rolled his body on top of it. Because if it was on the side of the hill his body would have crossed over it. I couldn’t think of any reason in particular though.

Investigator: Okay. So, you didn’t hit him with the stick or do anything with him with the stick?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Okay, so that stick just ended up on top of him?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, it’s possible he, you rolled him over on it, and then when you were covering him up that stick just ended up on top of him?

Jerrod Murray: It ended up on top of him because the way I covered him up.

Investigator: And so, after you got the body covered up, what did you do then?

Jerrod Murray: I, um, headed back to the truck and tried to get it unstuck.

Investigator: So, you put it in reverse then tried to, uh…

Jerrod Murray: And then tried and tried to but it wasn’t going. So, uh, after that I…

Investigator: When you say it wasn’t going it was because it was stuck?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I believe one of the wheels was off the ground and it wasn’t making traction.

Investigator: Okay, so you couldn’t get the truck out so what did you do then?

Jerrod Murray: I uh, looked to the left and from the headlights I saw that I could see his orange shirt, so I covered him up better. And uh, as I was finishing that I saw the headlights of a car pulling over the hill, so I went out…

Investigator: Which way was it coming from?

Jerrod Murray: It was heading East, uh, West from the East side, so the highway. And uh, he was slowing down already so I came out as quickly as I could from behind the truck and flagged him down by waving my hands and uh, he asked what was going on. I told him that I had drowsed, dozed off, and veered off the road and couldn’t get my truck unstuck. And then he was uh, I think he, I don’t think he knew exactly what happened, but I think he knew I did something. Maybe stealing, I don’t know. Because like you said, no one travels down that road.

Investigator: Um, did you know him?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir, I did not know him. But since he travels down that road he most likely lived in that area. He knew that I didn’t.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: So, most likely he, uh, was suspicious based on that fact alone because I had no business being on that road. But, uh, he agreed to give me a ride to Asher non the less. Uh, more specifically he didn’t agree to that until his phone didn’t work. We pulled up to about the highway then he dialed a number for me. Uh, I gave him a fake number so that it wouldn’t answer and if it did answer I could just make something up. Whatever number didn’t answer, it was a number that was out of service. Uh, he agreed to give me a ride to Asher so I could get my cellular phone. I don’t own a cellular phone. To uh, call someone that I knew to come get me out.

Investigator: Okay. Where did he take to in Asher?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, my grandparent’s house.

Investigator: Okay. And what is your grandparent’s name?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, Ethel, ah, I don’t know if it’s [inaudible] or Rodrick now.

Investigator: Okay. And [inaudible] and what? And what, do you know their address in Asher?

Jerrod Murray: 306 East Salter Street.

Investigator: Okay, and that’s where he took you to.

Jerrod Murray:  Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay, and you got out.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay, and what did you do then?

Jerrod Murray: I went into the house; I had a Coca Cola. I called a roommate from college that I had an accident and wondered if he could, uh, either get me out of the ditch or knew anyone that could get me out of the ditch.

Investigator: What’s your roommate’s name?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, Shane Schroth.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: Then, uh…

Investigator: Does he have a cell phone?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Do you know his number?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, not off the top of my head, sir. But if I had a phone, I could tell you. It’s like, uh, one…

Investigator: Hang on.

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I can tell you it now. 1-405-694-0359.

Investigator: 6-9-4..

Jerrod Murray: 0-3-5-9.

Investigator: And what’s his name again?

Jerrod Murray: Shane Schroth.

Investigator: Okay, and he goes to school there?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, and he also graduated from Asher.

[inaudible cross talk]

Jerrod Murray: The class.

Investigator: What’s the year, we talked before and you didn’t actually graduate from Asher.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: But you would have graduated with him.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And what’s his last name?

Jerrod Murray: Schroth. S-C-H-R-O-T-H.

Investigator: Okay, and he knew you from Asher?

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: And we were roommates in college because we were fairly good friends.

Investigator: So, you guys lived in the same dorm, the same room?

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: And, so you told him you were stuck.

Jerrod Murray: Yes. I told him I ran my car off a ditch and asked if he knew anyone that could get me out.

Investigator: Do you own a car?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Did he not know this?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, he didn’t ask, sir.

Investigator: Okay, and what did he tell you?

Jerrod Murray: He, uh, he said he’d try to call his mother to see if his father could do it for me. And uh, they were asleep so there was no answer. So uh, at that point I decided I should go off on my own. I got that can of WD-40 and was going…

Investigator: Wait, wait, wait. Where did you get this can of WD-40?

Jerrod Murray: I, uh, stole it from his parents.

Investigator: Okay, lets back up just a second.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Because you said you were at your grandparents.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay. How did you get to his parent’s house?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, he lives on the other side of Asher. I walked.

Investigator: Okay, when you say the other side of Asher, help me out. East of Asher, West Asher, North?

Jerrod Murray: South Asher.

Investigator: South of the [inaudible] shops?

Jerrod Murray: No, it’s in the town just on the South side.

Investigator: Okay, you don’t know their address?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: So, you walked after, I’m just trying to make, understand this, okay?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, you call him from your grandparent’s house.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Then he tries to call his parents?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And no answer.

Jerrod Murray: No answer, sir.

Investigator: So, you walk from your grandparent’s house….

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And you walk to his mom and dad’s house.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And about how far is that from your grandparent’s house?

Jerrod Murray: Not far at all. It’s, ah, maybe eight to nine blocks. I don’t know mileage for that.

Investigator: And you walk to their house.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Did you knock on the door?

Jerrod Murray: I just got the can of WD-40 and…

Investigator: And where was that at?

Jerrod Murray: Outside, sir.

Investigator: On the porch or…

Jerrod Murray: They live in a trailer house, sir. It was to the right of their entry way.

Investigator: Just sitting on the ground or…

Jerrod Murray: Sitting on top of a milk crate.

Investigator: Okay, but it was in the yard.

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: Not a vehicle or nothing.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And why did you get the WD-40?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, WD-40 is a solvent. It would help degrade the, uh, oils from my fingers and uh, get rid of my fingerprints, sir.

Investigator: Okay. So, you were going to get the can of WD-40 and go back to the crime scene and use WD-40 on the pickup…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: To try to get rid of your fingerprints?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And did you do that?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, no, sir. When I was on my way back, as opposed to going directly back to it I cut through a forest area there by an abandoned trailer house. And uh, as I was entering uh, the uh, general area about the crime scene I heard uh, I believe it was an elderly gentleman cough.  I’m not sure who, I’m not sure what. I just left because well, around that area the man who gave me a ride into town was an elderly gentleman. I concluded that he might have went back and the headlights and brake lights were still on. I thought he might have went back to turn them off, uh, so my battery wouldn’t die. And then he saw the, uh, at least the blood. Probably the body, it wasn’t well hidden at all.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: That’s the conclusion I reached anyways.

Investigator: Uh, so you was in the woods?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, you don’t really know who it was?

Jerrod Murray: I just heard an elderly gentleman cough.

Investigator: Did you see the pickup?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: So, you didn’t, so you couldn’t see the pickup…

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: And, so you were on the south side of the road in the woods?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, but you never could see the pickup again or know who was there?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Okay, so what did you do then?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I headed back East instead of South; took a different route to get out of the wooded area. Uh, ran into a barbed wire fence, jumped the barbed wire fence, headed South along another barbed wire fence I found next to the highway. Well, you couldn’t see the highway, but you could easily hear it and I could see the substation from there pretty clearly. I, uh, headed South along that, came across another barbed wire fence, jumped it, then headed to where I started out at, at that abandoned trailer house there, then walked away and headed North.

Investigator: The abandoned trailer house, is it South of the substation?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, it’s South of the substation.

Investigator:  By how far?

Jerrod Murray: Maybe a hundred yards.

Investigator: And you know what side of the road it’s on?

Jerrod Murray: Um. West side.

Investigator:  West side.

Jerrod Murray: It’s up the ways a little. It’s in a, you know how trailer houses out in the country will have driveways leading to them. So, um, I’m not sure if you can see it from the highway or not.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: And the driveway is run down. I happened to know no one lives there so I figured that was a perfect vantage point to get to the crime scene again.

Investigator: Okay. So, did you get back on the highway?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator:  And which way did you go?

Jerrod Murray: North, sir.

Investigator: What were your intentions?

Jerrod Murray: Ah.

Investigator: Walking North.

Jerrod Murray: Canada, sir.

Investigator: You were just going to Canada.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: I hoped that uh, by determining I was heading South you, went to Asher, you already know my Grandparent’s house and I was hoping that my name would probably show up somewhere over the course of this little thing, I wasn’t expecting it to be found so quickly…

Investigator: Why didn’t you expect it to be found so quickly?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I didn’t think someone would drive down that road. In my original plan, I gave myself maybe six to eight hours to get out of the area. But since it was found so quickly, at least I believed so at the time, I didn’t want to revise the plan because I had headed South originally going into town.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: And uh, I hoped you guys would think that I was headed towards Mexico as it’s much closer and probably easier to get past the border.

Investigator: Okay, and so you was walking North on 177.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator:  And what side of the road were you on?

Jerrod Murray: I was on the left right of the road, sir.

Investigator: Okay so if you’re going…

Jerrod Murray: East side.

Investigator: East side and you were walking.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And what happened then?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I had tried hitch hiking part of, most of the way because the only way this was going to work factoring in, uh, my belief that you all found the crime scene is if someone were to give me a ride there with them. Uh, however, that didn’t happen. Most people were truckers, so they didn’t, they just kept driving, they had a place to go. And then whenever your patrol car pulled up behind me, I didn’t know it was a patrol car and I stuck my thumb out and you was there for the rest.

Investigator: And that’s when I, that’s when me and you first came in contact, correct?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And you were advised then to get on the ground, correct?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator:  Okay, and that’s when I had you put your hands behind your back…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And then when I approached you, I asked you for my safety and for your safety if you had a gun.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And you said “no”.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Do you remember what else you said?

Jerrod Murray: Ah. I might have mentioned the ammunition in my left pocket, sir.

Investigator: That’s right, and what else?

Jerrod Murray: Ah…. “I am the one you’re looking for”.

Investigator: And at that point I told you to be quiet…

Jerrod Murray: Uh….

Investigator: Until I got you and read your rights to you.

Jerrod Murray: Oh ah…

Investigator: Is that correct?

Jerrod Murray: I’m not sure but if you’re saying its correct…

Investigator: Well, no, do you remember that conversation when you said…?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: I said, “hang on just a second”.

Jerrod Murray: Ah, yes, sir. You did say that, yes, sir.

Investigator: So I could read your rights to you and I read your rights to you at that point.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir. I wasn’t aware you were telling me to be quiet, I thought you was just saying “I need to read your rights”.

Investigator: But I told you, you do remember me saying “be quiet for a second”.

Jerrod Murray: Yeah, “hold on a second”.

Investigator: Hold on a second.

Jerrod Murray: Yeah, something to that affect.

Investigator: Okay, uh [inaudible] where, uh we talked about this when you told me the gun, you left the gun in the pickup.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay, and when we talked and I told you that, you know, you already told us about the homicide, and you told us about shooting him. The gun’s not in the truck.

Jerrod Murray: It was in the truck, sir.

Investigator: And, so, I need to know where that gun at.

Jerrod Murray: When I left the scene, it was still in the truck, sir.

Investigator: Was still in the truck.

Jerrod Murray: It was still in the truck, sir.

Investigator: Where was it at in the truck?

Jerrod Murray: It was, uh, I believe it was on the center console but it’s possible that it could have been between the driver seat and the center console.

Investigator: Okay, because the center console is pushed up, not down.

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I don’t remember that.

Investigator: Well, you’re saying it’s on the center console. To be on the center console, the center console would have to be in the down position, correct?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: The center console is up. So, was it up or down when you was there?

Jerrod Murray:  I think it was down, sir.

Investigator: Okay. So, but your intentions, can I ask you why you’d leave the gun there if you just killed somebody and you just wanted to get to Canada.

Jerrod Murray: Uh, because the man pulled up too quickly, sir.

Investigator: Okay and was that you’re gun?

Jerrod Murray: Ah, no, sir.

Investigator: And where did you get that gun from?

Jerrod Murray: I stole it two weeks ago from a man named Daniel Davis. Uh, 217 North Division Street.

Investigator: And where is Division Street?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, it’s the uh, if you’re going down 018 and…

Investigator: What, what town is it in?

Jerrod Murray: Asher [inaudible].

Investigator: And his name is David Davis?

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: And how did you steal it from his house?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I went into his house, uh, his family and my family are on good terms. I just walked in the door and went back to his mother’s room and told her that I had a video game to return to Daniel. Then I went into Daniel’s room, put a video game that I brought with me as a way to get into the door and got the gun.

Investigator: Okay, and so you, was it in a box or was…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir. It was in a uh, case.

Investigator:  And where’s the case at?

Jerrod Murray: Still at his house, sir.

Investigator: So, you took the gun out of the case…

Jerrod Murray: I took the gun and two clips, sir.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: I took all the clips.

Investigator: So, where’s those at? so there’s just two?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And where’s, is there ammunition in them?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir. There were twelve rounds in each clip, uh, since I fired three rounds from that one clip that means there’s nine rounds in it- should be. And the uh, other clip had eleven rounds in it because one was chambered and the other round was, I unchambered it and handed it to him.

Investigator: Okay, and now when I brought you in here, we was uncuffing you, we was checking the pockets of your jackets, make sure you didn’t have any weapons in your pockets, correct?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator:  And I pull this can of WD-40 out of your um, right coat pocket…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And then in your left coat pocket there was a purple crown royal bag…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And I took that out of your pocket.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And can you tell me what’s in here?

Jerrod Murray: Ah, some Smith and Wesson 40 Caliber rounds, sir.

Investigator: And was them part of the rounds you stole with the gun?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, no sir. I bought those two or three days later off of friend of mine, sir.

Investigator: So, that many rounds?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, that plus what was in the clip, sir. So, there was twelve and twelve twenty-four plus four that’s in there.

Investigator: Okay but you said there was already, the magazines already had bullets in them.

Jerrod Murray: No, sir. I loaded them with the ammunition I bought, sir.

Investigator: Okay, so when you stole the gun and the magazines there was no bullets with it?

Jerrod Murray: No bullets were in it, sir.

Investigator: Okay so you, what was in the two magazines…

Jerrod Murray: Nothing, sir. Oh, as for the ammunition, yes sir.

Investigator: And what’s in here, you bought off of a friend.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator:  And do you know his name?

Jerrod Murray: Ah… Not off the top of my head, sir.

Investigator: Does he go to college?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir. I call him a friend but he’s just a guy.

Investigator: Okay, and where is he from?

Jerrod Murray: Ada, sir.

Investigator: And do you know how to get ahold of him?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir. It’s a guy I know through a guy minus, I got the word out that I was looking for some ammunition and then…

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: A “friend of mine” sold it to me, so…

Investigator: Do you know how many rounds are in here?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, no, sir. I believe there was anywhere between three and six though.

Investigator: So [inaudible] if I pull them out and there will be three to six rounds of 40 caliber rounds in there, correct?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Your intentions with the gun, when you got out into Asher after you shot this young man, that the gun was still in the truck…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: With the magazine.

Jerrod Murray: One magazine as he was holding one of, the other magazine. I believe it fell out of the truck when I was pushing him out. He, I didn’t see it on the floorboard before I left because I was trying to gather it all up. But uh, I think he might still have it in his left hand. [cross talk] At the crime scene.

Investigator: There should have been the gun…

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: The magazine that was in the gun…

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: The one round that you handed him…

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: And then the full magazine.

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: So, we’re talking about a total of how many rounds? You said both of them had twelve in it.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, we should have, you fired three rounds, correct?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, there should be twenty-one rounds and two magazines there and a gun.

Jerrod Murray: Uh, Yes, sir. Plus, well, there, yes, sir. Twenty-one rounds, two magazines, and a gun.

Investigator: Okay. Also, in your pocket there was a debit card, master card, has the name Jerrod Murray. And that’s you, correct?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: This is yours?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Jerrod, I’m going to ask you to sit here for just a second and I’ll be right back, okay?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

[Investigator exits the room]

[Investigator returns]

Investigator: Okay Jerrod. I have a couple other things [inaudible], alright?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And I believe you’re being honest with me, I really do. You told me stuff that, that, that I had no qualms about what you’re telling me except for a couple things, I know for a fact you didn’t get the WD-40 from the front yard.

Jerrod Murray: You’re right. I [inaudible] keeping him out of this but I did go into his house, he did give it to me, and, and, yeah.

Investigator: And when you say him, who?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, the parent of the friend that I called.

Investigator: Shane’s?

Jerrod Murray: Shane’s father, stepfather, yes.

Investigator: And do you know his name?

Jerrod Murray: Ah, Michael Norris.

Investigator: Okay, and what did you tell Michael?

Jerrod Murray: I told him about what had happened and asked for his opinion on the next course of action.

Investigator: When you said what happened, what do you mean?

Jerrod Murray: The murder. I told him about that.

Investigator: You told, you told Shane’s father about the murder you just did?

Jerrod Murray: Not the specifics but the general picture, yes.

Investigator: Do you remember what you told him?

Jerrod Murray: Not exactly. But I mean, I didn’t tell him “I fired three shots, missed one shot, in the head.” Not all that. I just said I got a truck, I killed a guy for it, it’s in a ditch.

Investigator: Okay. Did you tell him how you did it?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I don’t remember but I might’ve.

Investigator: Okay, and this is really important, and I want you to really think about this because you said you were trying to keep him out of trouble…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And I did know more than you think I know.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, I’m still at the gun.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: It’s not in the truck.

Jerrod Murray: It was when I left the scene. That was the whole point of him taking me back, sir. To get it.

Investigator: Okay, so he took you back to the scene?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, no.

Investigator: Because you said you walked.

Jerrod Murray: No, ah, he drove me to the abandoned house that I spoke of.

Investigator: Okay, so Mr. Norris gave you the can of WD-40…

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: And I believe he probably got that from the bathroom of his house.

Jerrod Murray: Ah, I’m not aware of where he got it but if that’s where he says then yeah.

Investigator: Okay, and, so he drove you from Asher back to

Jerrod Murray: The area of the scene.

Investigator: Just South where you would turn on Substation Road and that’s where the abandoned trailer house is on the West side.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, you got out of the car and walked out through the abandoned trailer house, through the woods…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And that’s when you heard somebody cough?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Ah, there is a note wrote on a piece of paper, like a business card, on the passenger side window. Stuck on the pickup. The window’s up, and there’s a note stuck in there. Says “come to the house at the end of the road.” Did you write that?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Huh?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: You didn’t write that?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: You have any idea how that note could have got there?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir. I don’t think anything like that was there whenever I left.

Investigator: Okay. So, is it a possibility that the gentleman…?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, yes. On our way back to Asher he had told me some thieves had stolen about a thousand dollars’ worth of guns of his and that he was looking for them and that if he found them, he would kill them dead on the side of the road. Then I said that a thousand dollars is a fair amount of money and then he said it didn’t matter if it was fifty, he doesn’t like thieves.

Investigator: Okay, um, so is it possible that he, that on his way home he could have stopped and wrote that note?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, that’s a possibility, I won’t deny that. Like I said, I thought it might have been him who called the police. Ah, I still don’t know if it was or not, but I thought it might have been him. He went to go turn my lights off then saw the blood and then called but uh, if he did write that note then I don’t think he would have called police.

Investigator: Okay, uh, I just want to go over a couple points with you then we’re going to take another break, okay?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Um, and you started this out that, um, you’ve actually had this on your mind for about three weeks.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And you just didn’t know who.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: Or when. Or where. Well, I had a general idea of the area but that was picked out about a week ago, sir.

Investigator: And was that picked out because of where you were aware of your surroundings?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And so, lets go back to our victim, the young man that you killed.

Jerrod Murray: Generro.

Investigator: Um, you, basically you picked him out because you thought that you, nobody would miss him, if I understood what you…

Jerrod Murray: In general, yes, sir.

Investigator: And you told me on the way you guys talked from Ada to Asher about your upbringings…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Was your upbringing any different than his?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: What was the difference between your upbringing and his?

Jerrod Murray: Nothing major, I mean, we didn’t talk on the topic of upbringings for very long. He just said that he was, uh, always fat and overweight and was made fun of for it so he had confidence issues and then I said that I never, well, I had that problem but that problem stopped in about the fifth grade, so.

Investigator: And why did that stop?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, the bullies that picked on me, I beat them up.

Investigator: Okay, and that was in Asher?

Jerrod Murray: Yes.

Investigator: Okay, so the bullies, you beat them up, not because you just wanted to beat them up but because they were making fun of you?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, to stop them from making fun of me, yes.

Investigator: Okay, I can understand that. Um, let me, have you done any other thing that’s been violent?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, yes, sir. The mutual friend that I talked about that I know him through, his name is Wyatt Freeman. He lives across the hall from me. I don’t know his room number. It’s directly across the hall though. Uh, maybe a month, a month and a half ago at college… we hung out almost every night, played video games, it was all fun and games, you know. Uh, I was talking to him and then the talk of [inaudible] was brought up and then he said if I got you in a choke hold you would tap out. I said I’m not going to tap out and then he got me in a choke hold and I was knocked unconscious and when I woke up everyone in the room was laughing at me and then he said that there was no way I was knocked unconscious in that short of a time and then I punched him in the face and then he pushed me away and told me to get out of his room and I spat in his face and left his room. And then he came to my room, and had a flashlight I had dropped out of my pocket and was holding it and said “this is your flash light”. I went to reach for it, he pulled me into the hallway, and was going to beat me for it. Then, I told him let them beat me and whenever they come to break it up, I would be the one with all the injuries and it would be his fault.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: And then the uh, East Central University police responded to that.

Investigator: Okay, and his first name is what?

Jerrod Murray: Wyatt.

Investigator: Wyatt.

Jerrod Murray: I’m not quite sure how to spell that. Freedman is his last.

Investigator: Okay, um, Jerrod, I want to ask you again just point blank because you sat here and confessed to…

Jerrod Murray: Pretty much everything.

Investigator: In my mind, I think you might agree with me, just cold blooded killed him that night, or last night.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Have you ever killed anybody else?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Have you ever thought of it?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, more myself than anyone else, sir.

Investigator: Okay, and when was the last time you thought about killing yourself?

Jerrod Murray: Three weeks ago, sir.

Investigator: And what was going on three weeks ago?

Jerrod Murray: Nothing in particular. Um, my grandfather died recently but that’s not related to it. Before his death I had similar thoughts as recently.

Investigator: Your grandfather, is that the same grandfather that you caught a ride to back to his house tonight or a different one?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, yes. My grandparent’s house. He lived there with my grandmother. Yes.

Investigator: Okay, so your grandfather’s dead so your grandmother lives by herself?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, she had a friend over but yeah.

Investigator: Okay. Uh, okay. Let me ask you this, Jerrod. Are you taking any medications for any mental illness?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Have you ever?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Do you take drugs?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Have you ever taken drugs?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I smoked marijuana in my mid to early teenage years.

Investigator: When was the last time you smoked marijuana?

Jerrod Murray: Maybe six years ago, maybe five.

Investigator: Never done any other type of drug?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Um, not on any medicatoin.

Jerrod Murray: No, sir. Just an albuteral inhalor for asthma.

Investigator:  You do have asthma.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Um, so, um, when you, lets go back three weeks ago when you started planning that you were going to kill somebody.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And you just didn’t know who or when.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: What made last night the time and who. I kind of understand who.

Jerrod Murray: Uh, as I stated earlier, uh, it wasn’t neccissarily last night. I made the decision to do it and who three days ago and I tried. No, maybe two…. Tuesday. I made the decision, Tuesday. This whole saying days ago because it’s a different day than it was yesterday, uh, it was Tuesday that I made the decision  it should be him. He wasn’t in his dorm, I didn’t try again, no. Maybe I did try again the day after. I can’t remember the days anymore. It was Tuesday I made up my mind, though. I knew who it was and tried that night.

Investigator: Okay, and I guess I’m having a hard time understanding what you got out of it. Can you kind of, can you help me?

Jerrod Murray: I don’t really get anything out of it.

Investigator: But I mean why, if you weren’t going to get something, self graditude, something, why did you do it, I guess is what I’m asking.

Jerrod Murray: If I’m pressed to answer I’ll say it’s to prove the strength of my resolve but that is only if I’m pressed to answer.

Investigator: I’m not pressing you. I’m just trying to understand.

Jerrod Murray: Then I don’t know why.

Investigator: Okay, so it just…

Jerrod Murray: Popped in my head.

Investigator: Popped in your head and you…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay but it ever popped in your head before?

Jerrod Murray: Ah, not an appeal, sir.

Investigator: That you, that you, you never killed before?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Okay, animals?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir. I’ve never hunted. I know how to hunt. I know how to make a bow and arrow. I know how to field dress animals and but not but I’ve never hunted before, no.

Investigator: Okay, now when we were talking before you indicated to me you did not graduate from Asher.

Jerrod Murray: No, sir. I flunked out.

Investigator: Okay, so when you say “flunked out” was that because you just couldn’t do it or you just…

Jerrod Murray: I didn’t want to do homework. The teachers at the school as well as all facitly amitted I was the smartest person there. They knew I could do the work. I didn’t see the point of doing it if they already know and everyone knows I could do it.

Investigator: That was my next question because it don’t make sense sombody who flunked out of school would be at East Central.

Jerrod Murray: Ah, that summer, I’ve been going to [inaudible] Upward Bound for math and science, uh, since maybe three years ago. Uh,

Investigator: And was you doing Upward Bound at East Central?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, that’s uh…

Investigator: Do they have it in…

Jerrod Murray: They have both Upward Bound math and science, obviously.

Investigator: [cross talk]  also do the same thing but I don’t think you can get math and science at [inaudible] state [inaudible].

Jerrod Murray: Yeah. It’s upper math, yeah.

Investigator: Okay. So you’ve been going East Central Upward Bound?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, yes. For three years, yes, sir. And um…

Investigator: What kind of grades are you making in college right now?

Jerrod Murray: I believe I’ve failed everything besides choices and wellness, sir.

Investigator: Is, are you failing everything by choice?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And why is that?

Jerrod Murray: Mm, laziness I would suppose, sir.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: Didn’t feel like going to classes. I mean, if I was already up in the Central area to eat a meal I would go to classes because it’s not that I have a problem going to classes. It’s to the dorms to the central area; I was too lazy to travel that distance.

Investigator: Not because you couldn’t do the work.

Jerrod Murray: Not because I couldn’t do the work. I was passing most my classes before then.

Investigator: And what were your ambitions or dreams to be?

Jerrod Murray: Ah, I had hoped to become a chemist for the Department of Defense.

Investigator: Okay. Kind of hard to do in Canada.

Jerrod Murray: [laughs]

Investigator: Wouldn’t you agree?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And, I’m going to ask you this and you can answer if you want. I’m just, I’m having a hard time.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Do you feel any remorse?

Jerrod Murray: I’m sad that I got caught so quickly but that’s almost lessened by being caught by someone with “sheriff” on their jacket but for killing him? No.

Investigator: Okay, so it makes you feel better that it was somebody that had “sheriff” on their jacket who arrested you?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: As opposed to what?

Jerrod Murray: A deputy or someone like that, sir.

Investigator: Okay, well, I’m not the sheriff.

Jerrod Murray: I’m aware of that.

Investigator: I’m the under sheriff.

Jerrod Murray: The person driving me up here told me that but still, that’s…

Investigator: So it makes you feel better that you got caught by somebody up in rank opposed to somebody under…

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: But my question again is, do you have any remorse?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Okay. Alright. Give me a minute, okay?

[Investigator exits room]

[background conversation in another room]

[Investigator returns]

Investigator: {inaudible] okay?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir. Ah, my left thumb has been numb since we got to the crime scene.

Investigator: Do what?

Jerrod Murray: My left thumb has been numb since we got to the crime scene.

Investigator: How come?

Jerrod Murray: I don’t know. I figured when the cuffs came off feelings would return to it but in this area it’s still numb.

Investigator: Ah, you probably just need to work it.

Jerrod Murray: Well, I have been.

Investigator: Rub it. You ever been cuffed before?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: So aint never been in any trouble?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: So if I run a record on you I’m not going to find anything on you?

Jerrod Murray: You might find that assault from a couple months ago but that would be it.

Investigator: That’s when you and that other guy got into it?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: About the choke hold.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay. Um, I take it since you go to college you have a computer, correct?

Jerrod Murray: I have a laptop, sir.

Investigator: And it’s probably at your dorm?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay. Um, and I know we’ve talked about this, kind of in general, you didn’t know who it was going to be?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Or when it was going to be but you kind of knew where.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Then you tried this Tuesday night.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And he wasn’t there, he was home. This is now Friday morning so this was Thursday night.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: And when I talked to you, something about “was there going to be others”…

Jerrod Murray: I…

Investigator: And you made the statement earlier that you was happy that you got caught by somebody in the rank and stature of the Sheriff’s office.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: So, you understand I’m going to do my job thorough.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir. I understand that completely.

Investigator: And that means I’m going to end up getting a search warrant of your computer.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir. I understand that.

Investigator: So, if there is, I want this, searching your computer are we’re going to find any ideals of wanting to do a mass shooting in a school?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Or you was going to kill anybody else?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Okay, why do you want me to believe that this was going to be a one time thing since you planned this for three weeks, and by Tuesday night you knew who and when but it failed?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Tell me why I should believe you this was just going to be one person who was going to suffer from your consequences of killing?

Jerrod Murray: You have no reason to believe me, sir.

Investigator: Oh, I believe but so, but you’re trying to tell me you were just going to do it one time and that was going to be the end of it?

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Okay. So I’m not going to find anything on your computer that’s going to be or when I go to college when myself and this team from the DA’s office goes to the campus and we go and talk to everybody that you’re associated with at the dorms, uh, nobody’s going to tell us “well he’s talked about a school shooting or killing people”?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: I’m not going to find that?

Jerrod Murray: No, sir.

Investigator: Okay.

Jerrod Murray: That said, I have been asked by people, including at Asher, if I was a murderer or if I planned on it but I’ve never planned on it since three weeks ago and I’ve never killed anyone so the answer has always been “no”. I’m not sure if it was jokingly or seriously, that said.

Investigator: Okay. I guess I’m just having a real hard time understanding why. Why him?

Jerrod Murray: Well, if it was a random person there could be the possiblity he had children or something of that nature. Uh, if it was someone else up there they’d have a lot more friends or a lot more social, so…

Investigator: So… [inaudible] by his quota status of not having very many friends or being social, it was a good victim.

Jerrod Murray: His presence would be less noticed, yes.

Investigator: Okay.

[Investigator stands to exit]

Jerrod Murray: That said, he did have a girlfriend and some friends.

Investigator: Yeah. You don’t think his girlfriend would have missed him?

Jerrod Murray: Ah, I wasn’t aware of his girlfriend up until tonight, sir.

Investigator: Oh. So he told you before you killed him?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, no. The entire way down there uh, I had the phone at Wal-Mart, so the entire way down there she was texting him so I was texting what he told me to text back.

[Investigator sits back down]

Investigator: So this was a conversation between his girlfriend and actually you, but you was texting what he…

Jerrod Murray: Word for word, yes.

Investigator: Okay. You don’t think she’s going to be upset, heartbroken?

Jerrod Murray: I think she will be.

Investigator: How does that make you feel?

Jerrod Murray: No different, sir.

Investigator: Okay.

[Investigator exits room]

[Investigator enters room]

Investigator: Do one more thing for me.

Jerrod Murray: Yes, sir.

Investigator: Just the history deal with you, fill that form out for me.

Jerrod Murray: Uh…

Investigator: Just your name, address, city, phone number, stuff like that.

Jerrod Murray: Alright.

Investigator: Just [inaudible]

[Investigator exits room]

[Investigator enters room]

Investigator: Common’ big guy.

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I’ve got some questions about this paperwork.

Investigator: About what?

Jerrod Murray: Uh, I didn’t know what to put under investigator, date, armed, hair color or the bottom line.

Investigator: Okay, that’s no big deal. I’ll fill that in.

Jerrod Murray: Well, I didn’t even know if that was hair color, I thought it might be hair length, both. I don’t know.

Investigator: Okay, that’s good. I just needed general information on name and all that anyway.

[investigator and Jerrod exit room after Jerrod pushes chair back under table]

Investigator: Common, through here.

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Case Summary Uncategorized

Lee Rodarte Case Summary

On August 2, 2017, Savannah Gold was last seen on security cameras leaving her car and entering the car of her manager, Lee Rodarte, at the restaurant she worked at, Bone Fish. They had an on-again off-again relationship; though Rodarte primarily dated someone else.

Savvanah Gold

Within minutes of entering Rodarte’s car, Savannah’s mother and brother received text messages from her phone, written in a way that Savannah would not write, with various spelling errors. The text message to her mother read:

“Hey I just eanted to tell you and mom I met a really great guy and we are running away together I love him and we are leaving to ight ill call you later when we get tk where we are glong”

The text message to her brother read:

“Heyi quit im leavingwith my boyfriend I cant do this shit anything im fine justwant to get away”

This immediately alarmed her family who later filed a missing person’s report. Soon, the police reviewed security footage showing Lee Rodarte’s vehicle doors being kicked open three times after he gets into the back of his vehicle with her. She is never seen leaving his vehicle.

Lee Rodarte2

In a police interrogation, he says he went to Bone Fish knowing her shift was about to start to tell her to stop spreading rumors about their intimate relationship because it was upsetting his girlfriend. The situation escalated and he slashed her tire and murdered her. Examiners were not able to determine her cause of death but did say her hyaline cartilage was fractured and that her death was certainly a homicide. Lee Rodarte claims as the struggle ensued in the back of his vehicle, he felt something “pop” in her neck.

Lee Rodarte has filed a “Stand Your Ground” claim with the First District Court of Appeal, resulting in his trial being delayed.